Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Injustice204 on April 03, 2024, 11:40:04 am
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Just adding this information re their website as working on another case at the same location:
Bus lane reasons
These are the common reasons relating to bus lanes which we receive queries for
Select a reason:
I am a Blue Badge holder and I was looking for disabled parking
I did not realise I was in a bus lane
I entered the bus lane to avoid congestion
I stopped in the bus lane due to my medical condition
I was avoiding an accident
I was following a diversion / was directed into the bus lane
I was following my sat-nav / I was lost / I'm not from the area
I was in the bus lane, but it wasn't in operation at the time
I was in the bus lane, but not for a substantial distance
I was making way for an emergency vehicle
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger at the train station
I was picking up / dropping off a passenger
I was taking advice from others
I was unaware of the rules
I was unaware that couriers were not permitted in the bus lane
I was unfamiliar with the term "Bus Gate"
My vehicle is a taxi
My vehicle type is permitted to drive in bus lanes
There was a road closure so the bus lane was not in operation
There was nowhere to turn around and avoid the bus gate
There were no buses in the bus lane at the time
Other reasons
Non bus lane specific reasons that will appear in Bus Lane context
Select a reason:
A friend / family member recently passed away
I didn't see / understand the signage
I have already paid the PCN
I was not at the location on the day
I was not the driver
I was not the owner / keeper of the vehicle
I was unaware that a PCN had been issued as I've been away
My vehicle had broken down
My vehicle was cloned
My vehicle was stolen
The owner of the vehicle has passed away
The vehicle was on hire to someone else
None of the above
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OiTG6O0EUDCINiK3EgP5TrWUemzrPA96/view).
2240289699
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Que? But, we are making them work. ;D
I won another case today in which the VCA certificate provided was not signed. And they did not attend. To follow.
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Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OiTG6O0EUDCINiK3EgP5TrWUemzrPA96/view).
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Won. ;D They did not attend; the WS cited the wrong legislation (London Local Authorities and Transport for London Act 2003) and did not name the camera; they produced an out-of-date certificate pre the Key Case even though they have a new certificate!
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/DUTHIEUW%20v%20LB%20Ealing.pdf
Only just noticed: NOR is dated on my Geburtstag. No wonder we won. ;)
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Even though he is still in his beloved Kos (35 degrees) he is on top of things. 8)
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So now register an appeal at LT stating that you rely on your formal reps to the council. More can be added later if needed.
I'd let Hippocrates do that for you.
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Pm to be sent.
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They have not re-offered the discount, so it is now a total no-brainer to take them to London Tribunals, as the penalty remains the same (£130), and there are no additional costs.
So now register an appeal at LT stating that you rely on your formal reps to the council. More can be added later if needed.
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edit(https://i.imgur.com/9l8gmET.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7opiID.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZINk3iY.jpeg)
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Good Morning,
thank you for your assistance with the upload matter.
I have uploaded the pictures on to the recommended picture hosting site.
https://imgur.com/a/r6V6mv3
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Apologies, I have tried uploading the response as attachments but it is saying the upload file is full...I tried uploading the full response and also just the first page and I am still getting the same error.
As you have discovered, attachment space here is very limited. Please have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
use an external hosting site and post the BBCode here.
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Apologies, I have tried uploading the response as attachments but it is saying the upload file is full...I tried uploading the full response and also just the first page and I am still getting the same error.
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Good Evening,
I have received a response from Barking & Dagenham.
I was away so I have only just picked this up in the post.
Please find the response attached for your review.
Many thanks.
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Dear Barking and Dagenham
I require you to consider my informal challenge as my formal representations against the Enforcement Notice which was:
Dear Sirs
Ref: PCN no. BZ80352064 VRM GV62 KBZ
I make this initial submission against the PCN as follows:
1. The PCN does not state the exact locus of the alleged contravention.
2. The video evidence shows no relevant warning signage allegedly passed by the vehicle concerned.
3. Unless you can provide me with strict proof that the camera has the correct VCA certificate to satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal as provided at para. 7(2) of Schedule I of the London Local Authorities Act 1996(as amended), there was no breach.
Therefore, in view of the above, please cancel the PCN as you have not proved the alleged contravention.
In addition to the above, I make these further representations:
4. The Enforcement Notice conflates service with delivery. Service and delivery are two different concepts. Further, the law is silent with regard to delivery.
5. The Enforcement Notice wrongly limits the number of grounds on which to make representations as stated at para. 2(1) as provided at Schedule 1 to the London Local Authorities Act 1996 (as amended).
6. The Enforcement Notice very clearly limits the available ground provided at para. 2(4)(c) to theft whereas it does not take into account the possibility of a friend or relative using the vehicle and that person may well not be reported to the Police.
In light of the above, please cancel the PCN and EN forthwith.
Yours
Reg. keeper
*******
Let's see what their response is. As I said, I am more than happy to go the full distance and pay the £65 if I lose.
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Please find all pages of enforcement notice attached for your review.
Many thanks.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Please show it all and we will do another draft.
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Good Afternoon,
I have received the enforcement notice through the post now.
Please advise on the next step :)
Many thanks.
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Wait for the Enforcement Notice and do nothing in the meantime.
+1, do this.
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Wait for the Enforcement Notice and do nothing in the meantime.
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Please find the challenge decline letter attached.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi. Please show us what they wrote and we will advise further.
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Good Afternoon,
I have received a letter from Barking & Dagenham council advising that the challenge against the bus lane PCN has been rejected.
What would the next steps be?
They have advised in the letter that "if you are the owner or registered keeper of the vehicle and still wish to make representations against the PCN then you should not pay the charge. Instead you should respond to the enforcement notice that will be sent to you in due course"
From previous messages, this was anticipated anyway and the first challenge would be rejected, so I guess nothing surprising here?
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It is verbatim.
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Thank you.
I have submitted a challenge via the council website and will update you as soon as I have heard back.
Please confirm the challenge was/is verbatim.
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Thank you.
I have submitted a challenge via the council website and will update you as soon as I have heard back.
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@Injustice204 I'd go with Hippocrates's suggestion & offer of representation, he has more capacity than me to take on new cases at the moment and you can't really go wrong with a London bus lane case.
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So, please submit it verbatim and keep a record. I am happy to go the full distance with you free of charge.
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Thank you for the draft.
For absolute clarity, I am the registered keeper and I was driving the vehicle.
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I am thinking of the Fifth Set and would respectfully advise doing a draft re the signage as an informal challenge which, of course, they will reject. I am thinking of costs, possibly, if won. A costs application was won yesterday because the important issue was raised from the outset and intransigently rejected. (Bromley).
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/bus-lane-ticket-barking-and-dagenham/msg5163/#msg5163
******
Draft:
Dear Sirs
Ref: PCN no. BZ80352064 VRM GV62 KBZ
I make this initial submission against the PCN as follows:
1. The PCN does not state the exact locus of the alleged contravention.
2. The video evidence shows no relevant warning signage allegedly passed by the vehicle concerned.
3. Unless you can provide me with strict proof that the camera has the correct VCA certificate to satisfy the criterion of admissibility of evidence at the Tribunal as provided at para. 7(2) of Schedule I of the London Local Authorities Act 1996(as amended), there was no breach.
Therefore, in view of the above, please cancel the PCN as you have not proved the alleged contravention.
Yours faithfully
Name
Address
******************
OP: please confirm who was driving. And who is the registered keeper as this is driving me nuts!
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These responses give me some semblance of hope!
It's better than that, as I said we've not lost a London bus lane case since July 2021. It's the council that has very little hope of getting anywhere with this, as long as you hold your nerve and see this through to the end.
I'm tempted to say you might as well wait for the enforcement notice and make formal representations against that.
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These responses give me some semblance of hope!
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Apologies, I am not trying to shift the blame. I was just trying to be precise with my language. I completely understand that I am liable for the vehicle. My understanding was that it is best to talk more in the third person tense when explaining the situation.
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@cp8759 It's drawing straws time again. ;D
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The driver of said vehicle was visiting a client and was not used to the area or roads.
For statutory PCNs liability rests with the owner no matter who was driving, so you can drop all this "the driver" nonsense, which can actually backfire.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8bVpPXd3Ps
I don't see how the signage could possibly be adequate: https://maps.app.goo.gl/iwH6rMbLyt5BkDH38
Here is The London Borough of Barking and Dagenham (North Street, London Road, Wood Lane, Cambridge Road, Linton Road, Ripple Road, New Road and Longbridge Road) (Bus Lane) Order 2002 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/15XEfW29FbBk94FmXNdDiBYiSi1q83q0a/view).
That being said, they likely won't get the video admitted into evidence, that's the reason we've not lost a London bus lane case since July 2021 and I don't see why that would change now.
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Please find rest of PCN attached.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi,
Just to confirm re PCN...when referring to requiring the whole PCN, do you mean the back of it as well as the front cover?
Thanks
The whole thing.
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PCN number: BZ80352064
REG: GV62KBZ
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Hi,
Just to confirm re PCN...when referring to requiring the whole PCN, do you mean the back of it as well as the front cover?
Thanks
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As per the other site, please post up the whole PCN and give us the VRM and PCN number details.
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The registered keeper of the vehicle received a penalty charge notice from Barking & Dagenham Council within the last 9-10 days.
The driver of said vehicle was visiting a client and was not used to the area or roads.
The driver pulled out in to the bus lane from a petrol station and drove in the bus lane for 30 yards.
There was a sign showing that the bus lane ended- this was the only sign the driver noticed, by that point the lane had already finished.
It was in the evening and therefore road markings were not clearly visible.
It was also a busy road and the driver's focus was on exiting the petrol station safely and not causing an obstruction.
In addition, the route the driver was taking to the client's property meant exiting the upcoming roundabout on the first exit. The driver entered the left lane to anticipate this. This left lane being the bus lane that ended within 30 yards of entering it. Overall driver was potentially in the bus lane for 2-5 seconds according to the driver.
Pictures of area and signage attached and PCN letter.
First Google street view image shows petrol station the driver exited from and the second google street view photo shows what was opposite to the petrol station exit.
[attachment deleted by admin]