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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: oldnebraskan on April 02, 2024, 03:33:34 pm

Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on July 30, 2024, 09:47:24 pm
Well done!
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on July 30, 2024, 09:49:26 am
After appealing to the Tribunal and while waiting for my hearing date in August I received a letter from the tribunal confirming my appeal has been granted as the council decided not to contest my appeal.

Funny that I provided the same evidence to the tribunal I initially gave to the council which they then rejected but guess this is how bullies operate to see how much they can get away with

Thanks you @cp8759 for all your help and advice in this matter.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on June 30, 2024, 03:51:28 pm
@oldnebraskan if you have not had a reply by 16 July then as you say, you might as well appeal to the tribunal as you have nothing to lose. You can register an appeal by just saying "the alleged contravention did not occur", you're not required to give any further information initially. If the council contests the case, you can always add further arguments once you've had sight of their evidence.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on June 28, 2024, 05:03:01 pm
Thanks H C Andersen

I have only open the letter today as I was away from home (for work) for the past week so missed the 7 days deadline set in the letter. I have emailed her the links today and received an automated response saying someone would get back to me between 14-21 days.

Hopefully she will understand why I didn't email her in 7 days from the letter and reply in the next few days but from my side I can't afford to wait "14-21 days" to see if they consider the evidence emailed as it would mean I miss the adjudicator deadline.

If I don't get a reply from the council officer then I got nothing to lose by going to the adjudicator. I still don't think the contravention occur as in the day in question I paid for parking (like many times before), I have seen no resident bay (on the floor) and the pictures use as evidence by the council does not show any resident parking sign near my car.


(I have just noticed by looking at my evidence that the same council officer rejected both my informal (25/03/24) and formal (17/06/24) appeals)
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: H C Andersen on June 28, 2024, 02:50:01 pm
I'm certain cp will comment, but the 'plan of last resort' only works with formal reps, not the adjudicator. If they tried to open the links then they considered the evidence as best they could. They even gave you a further 7 days from the letter to submit this info again.

Did you? If not, what did you do?

As I understand it, you don't have a statutory defence.

Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on June 28, 2024, 12:22:01 pm
Quote from: John U.K. on June 28, 2024, 12:19:56 pm
Quote
NOTE: unable to upload more images so added the letter below:
https://imgur.com/a/s3hc2bz

Follow the instructions here
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

So:
(https://i.imgur.com/L6XeMy5.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/597r312.jpeg)

Thank you John!
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: John U.K. on June 28, 2024, 12:19:56 pm
Quote
NOTE: unable to upload more images so added the letter below:
https://imgur.com/a/s3hc2bz

Follow the instructions here
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/

So:
(https://i.imgur.com/L6XeMy5.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/597r312.jpeg)
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on June 28, 2024, 12:01:27 pm
Hi @cp8759,

Hope all is well!

I have just seen a letter from the council rejecting my formal appeal by claiming that the links shared in relation to previous tribunal cases couldn't be opened. 

I have since emailed her the original links as requested in the rejection letter but I suspect she will either not respond or not consider this evidence.

Considering the rejection letter only gives the option to appeal to the Adjudicator or pay the full PCN amount I guess I got nothing to loss by going to the Adjudicator

Any suggestion as to how to prepare for the Adjudicator and also submitting my appeal form (I got less than 28 days to do so)

Thank you as always

NOTE: unable to upload more images so added the letter below:
https://imgur.com/a/s3hc2bz
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on May 17, 2024, 12:35:34 pm
Appeal submitted as suggested by cp8759 (thank you).

Will give an update when I hear back from the council.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: roythebus on May 17, 2024, 12:06:11 am
I wonder here the sign is in relation to the parked car? I can't see it in the background of any of the photos.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on May 16, 2024, 08:19:09 pm
A will do, it doesn't really matter as the purpose of the boxes is to tell the council officer which template paragraphs to put in the rejection.

Maybe you should put B, then if you get a response saying DVLA has confirmed you're the owner and nothing else, you have a strong argument that they didn't bother actually reading the text of the representation.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on May 16, 2024, 04:10:31 pm
Thank you @cp8759 hope you well!

I will do the appeal shortly! Can you please confirm that the option should I choose in the front page is A and in the reason for appeal in the following page is the message you shared with the relevant links?

[attachimg=1]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on May 13, 2024, 06:50:05 pm
@oldnebraskan here you got:

Dear London Borough of Wandsworth,

I challenge liability for this PCN on the grounds outlined in the following tribunal cases:

LINK1
LINK2

In light of that the penalty charge must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

I will PM you some links to replace LINK1 and LINK2 above, those links will have a click counter that will allow us to determine if the council open them. If they don't, we have a failure to consider argument to deploy at the tribunal.

Make sure to send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on May 13, 2024, 04:15:52 pm
Hi @cp8759/fellow members,

Can anyone please advice how to proceed with the formal appeal?

Thank you in advance
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on May 08, 2024, 06:00:06 pm
Hi all,

So finally received the NTO from Wandsworth council asking me either pay or make a formal appeal to the PCN received in February.

Photos attached.

Any advice on how to proceed please?

Thank you in advance!

[attachimg=1][attachimg=2]

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on April 03, 2024, 06:15:41 pm
They have up to 6 months from the date of the contravention to serve a notice to owner, but we'd normally expected it within 2 or 3 weeks of the expiry of the extended discount period.

There's always a good chance of getting a PCN cancelled, across the site I'd estimate over 80% of PCNs we see can be beaten for some reason or another. The biggest problem we have is people getting scared and giving up / paying prematurely.

A few of us act as professional representatives and we consistently win 85 - 90% of appeals.

If you get a formal notice of rejection and we think you don't have better than even odds and would be best advised to pay the discount, we'll tell you at the time.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on April 03, 2024, 11:48:22 am
I have just checked the V5C and the address is up to date.

Two questions please:

1- How long does the notice to owner normally takes to arrive (so I can keep an eye on the post)?
2- As you mention you will draft something I guess at least I have a small chance to formally appeal the PCN?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on April 03, 2024, 11:35:02 am
Council photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/4Ax5IZb.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/BvVcs2s.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jQEQ1qV.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xHAhWfN.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/dy8WUtc.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/9aADeL2.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wG62uL6.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/P2znIze.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/5s0KdHT.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/Pv8RRDG.jpeg)

GSV: https://maps.app.goo.gl/QrZbj2SxuJdJYy788

The traffic order is The Wandsworth (Tooting Broadway) (Parking Places) (No. 1) Order 1999 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mKcDj_2xjERPEDlkqh9kHWPskh-CBO2w/view) as amended by The Wandsworth (Tooting Broadway) (Parking Places) (No. 2) Order 1999 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EeYCT64-IlwnQSt_MdQFISSwCmY2_Iem/view) and The Wandsworth (Tooting Broadway) (Parking Places) (No. 1) Order 2002 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FBnsTVQ458hvKhT79fRyoOHynMJ9jvl8/view).

As long as the address on the V5C is up to date (don't assume, physically check it), let us know when you have the notice to owner and we'll draft something for you.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on April 03, 2024, 10:07:25 am
@cp8759 thanks for replying!

From all the pictures I have seen none of them show my car near the resident parking bay mention in the ticket nor do the parking bays in the street look different between the residents spaces and Pay and Display.

PCN number is WA89693394 and number plates is LX64UBZ. I am the registered keeper and do have the V5C.
Title: Re: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: cp8759 on April 02, 2024, 11:56:30 pm
It doesn't really matter whether it was a genuine mistake, what matters is whether we can establish a legal defence. I'm not sure the photos you've shown us even establish a prima-facie contravention, please give us the PCN number and number plate and I will double check and also have a look at the traffic order for this street.

The notice to owner will demand the full amount but as long as you challenge it within 14 days the discount is almost inevitably reoffered, so don't worry too much about the discount.

Are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5C?
Title: Wandsworth Council - Paid parking but PCN for parking in residents zone without valid permit
Post by: oldnebraskan on April 02, 2024, 03:33:34 pm
Hi all,

Back in February while visiting my sister I received a PCN from Wandsworth Council claiming I parked in a residents or shared use parking place without a valid virtual permit or clearly displaying a valid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place with parking contravention code 12.

On the day in question I did park on the street like in many previous occasions and I never noticed that in that side of the street there was a sign for resident parking only.

However the only sign I noticed on the street was from RingGo saying that payment was required for parking in location 10470 which I did pay online at around 2:48 PM until 5:30 PM

I have made an appeal to the council explaining my circumstances and that I never noticed the resident sign on the street and that I never tried to mislead the council or avoid parking without payment and that on that day I made a genuine mistake. My appeal was rejected claiming that the signage was located in close proximity to the rear of your vehicle and that parking remains the motorist responsibility . From the PCN pictures where my car was parked the sign mentioned in my rejection letter is at least at another car length and therefore not as close to my car and definitely not visible from the pictures taken from the rear of my car.

My question here is does anyone think or has had experience further appealing a similar PCN with Wandsworth council and do you think an independent party would see this as a genuine mistake as payment for parking was made at the time of the contravention?


All details hosted - https://imgur.com/a/7dlNF7o

I thought all signs in the street related to Permit Holders or Pay and Display users as:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jq4qozG76vaYEeY77