Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: petrolhead48 on March 21, 2024, 10:33:32 pm
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This was the wording of the challenge, submitted 22nd March, based on Incandescent's advice to at the very least go for the reduced rate:
@petrolhead48 forget about the reduced rate, this is virtually guaranteed to be cancelled if you take it all the way. Just wait for the enforcement notice.
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If the OP wishes to join The Mugged Club, pay up. If you want to follow my advice, wait for the Enforcement Notice as the likelihood is that they will not have fixed it at all.
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If getting the discount restored was the OP's objective--QED.
I notice they have put new bus lane markings down. I believe that will cause them some difficulty for two reasons:-
1) IIRC the traffic order indicated the bus lane ends at the tip of the island i.e. it doesn't extend into the L/H exit lane. So the new road marking has no validity;
2) The pedestrian crossing should have associated zig zags which would run into the new road marking. However you cannot have a bus lane and zig zags--mutually incompatible.
My biggest gripe is that you could cross the broad white line for access, as with most bus lanes,so if the L/H exit has no restrictions, as above, there should not be any contravention if a vehicle gets close to the island and exits to the left over the white line.
Mike
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This was the wording of the challenge, submitted 22nd March, based on Incandescent's advice to at the very least go for the reduced rate:
To whomever it may concern.
I am not appealing to have this PCN cancelled, rather I am asking for the discount rate to be reinstated due to the
unfortunate circumstances that have prevented it from being dealt with promptly, as the details below explain.
Unfortunately the registered keeper was out of the country during the time when the PCN would have been
received at the vehicle's registered address. They didn't return to the UK until the 14th March which is out of the
14 day discounted rate window.
Had the registered keeper been present at their home address, and in the UK, when the PCN was first received
then it would have been dealt with promptly and payment would have been made right away.
Please may you reinstate the discounted rate, and then it will be dealt with right away.
Regards
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Please show us your challenge.
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Wait for the Enforcement Notice - just got 5 cancelled yesterday - and the legislation is the 1996 Act.
I am happy to do this one and stay the course with you all the way to the Tribunal. This is only half the story as they failed to attend and failed to consider, so we had better draft decent formal repsrenatations against the Enforcement Notice. Please do not pay it!
ETA Register of Appeals
Register kept under Regulation 20 of the Road Traffic (Parking Adjudicators) (London) Regulations 1993, as amended and Regulation 17 of the Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022.
Case Details
Case reference 2240132030
Appellant Carol Yang
Authority London Borough of Lambeth
VRM GV12 ODT
PCN Details
PCN LJ26391067
Contravention date 22 Nov 2023
Contravention time 17:07:00
Contravention location Lambeth Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Being in a bus lane
Referral date
Decision Date 01 May 2024
Adjudicator Philippa Alderson
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice/Enforcement Notice.
Reasons
The Appellant is appealing a Penalty Charge Notice issued in respect of being in a bus lane at the location.
The Appellant has attended today in person, together with her authorised representative, Mr Morgan.
The Enforcement Authority relies upon photographic capture of the incident, together with a copy of the PCN, a copy of the relevant legislation, correspondence and location photographs.
Mr Morgan has put forward comprehensive submissions on a number of matters.
I have carefully considered all the evidence in this matter.
The CCTV footage relied upon by the EA shows the vehicle driving along a bus lane at the location.
The Appellant has today shown me a Charge Certificate, issued on 29th April 2024, in respect of this matter. The issue of this Certificate two days ago amounts to procedural impropriety on the part of the EA.
In light of this, I need not make any further findings in respect of this case. However, I note that the Enforcement Notice, dated 8th January 2024, gives conflicting information to the Appellant, in that it states that the penalty must be paid "before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of the Notice" but goes on to state that, "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge or to make representations before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of this notice, a charge certificate may to be issued .."(my italics). I find that this Notice is not therefore statutorily compliant.
I therefore allow this appeal.
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The 28 days is more of an aspiration, there is no legal requirement in the LLA & TfL Act 2003 to respond within a specific timescale. At least this is my understanding. However authorities have a duty to act fairly and expeditiously, so very delayed responses can be used in an appeal to adjudicators as creating unfairness. Having said that, 3 months would normally be the minimum delay for something like this.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/2003/3/schedule/1/paragraph/1/enacted
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I finally received a reply from Lambeth, but it's outside of the 28 day window in which they gave themselves to reply? (submitted challenge on 22nd March, received response by post dated 26th April).
Response is below.
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The Enforcement Notice will be the key document since the 7 I am dealing with at present (from December) truncate the period in which to pay.
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Well, as an absolute minimum, it is worth persuing to get the discount reinstated...
Forget about the discount, we've not lost a London bus lane case since July 2021.
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Good. They are in a pickle at the moment I can tell you.
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I submitted the challenge as it still allowed me to do so, and did that before I saw you said to just wait for the enforcement notice. I received confirmation of the challenge right away:
Thank you for submitting your challenge/representation to PCN reference: LJ27960929. A copy of your submission is attached for your records.
Your case will be placed on hold and will not progress in accordance with our procedure.
Your challenge/representation will be considered and a response will be sent to you.
Please allow up to 28 days for a response to be provided.
Not heard anything back yet, but will let you know when I do. At least it says the process is put on hold so the charge won't go up to the £190.
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@petrolhead48 I have just checked.* So, please explain what has been happening.
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The amount outstanding on the Charge Notice will increase to £195.00 very soon.
Please pay £130.00 now.
We received your challenge on Fri, 22 Mar 2024 and we will reply by . You do not need to challenge it again.
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You are well passed the challenge period. Just wait for the Enforcement Notice. Go on their website to see the status.
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Well, as an absolute minimum, it is worth persuing to get the discount reinstated, by describing the unfortunate circumstances that prevented the PCN from being dealt with promptly. If they refuse to play ball, the registered keeper will need to submit a Statutory Declaration when the matter gets to Order for Recovery stage, that the PCN was not received. Yes, it was received, but outside the period allowed in law for payment or representations, so would be OK.
OK thanks good point - I'll raise an informal challenge and explain the circumstances.
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No Enforcement Notice?
I don't believe one has been received through the post, no.
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No Enforcement Notice?
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Well, as an absolute minimum, it is worth persuing to get the discount reinstated, by describing the unfortunate circumstances that prevented the PCN from being dealt with promptly. If they refuse to play ball, the registered keeper will need to submit a Statutory Declaration when the matter gets to Order for Recovery stage, that the PCN was not received. Yes, it was received, but outside the period allowed in law for payment or representations, so would be OK.
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Hi all,
Received a PCN from Lambeth council for driving in what the news outlets are calling the Uk's most notorious and lucrative bus lane, for the left turn on Clapham Park Road. Here's the location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/x52HWBRBp4kedmag6
The registered keeper (not me) had been out of the country for a number of weeks, hence they only just received the notice and it is already after the 14 and 28 day periods. Online it says the fine will go up to £190 on the 24th March.
I was driving, and I'm not one to go looking for bus lane fines so I wouldn't have entered this knowing it was a bus lane, I was just trying to turn left at the jct.
Looking at the video evidence from the council I think I just crossed the white line as the car enters the shot. By the time the Bus Lane text on the floor by the traffic island comes in to my view, it's too late.
I've ended up here after reading how much of a disgraceful cash cow this particular bus lane seems to be.
Here's a link to the video (it doesn't seem to embed): https://i.imgur.com/tbCwpDC.mp4
Grateful to hear your opinions on whether it's worth pursuing this one?
Thanks
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