Free Traffic Legal Advice

General discussion => The Flame Pit => Topic started by: roythebus on March 17, 2024, 08:29:28 am

Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: cp8759 on March 19, 2024, 04:49:15 pm
Surely the answer is that if you remove the number plate during a repair, the number plate is displayed "in accordance" with the requirements of VERA as per TFL v London Tribunals...
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: andy_foster on March 19, 2024, 03:25:51 pm
The law (VERA 1994 s.42) requires the number plate to be fixed, and not obscured (s.43) at all times.

There are no exceptions for trade plates, transporters or indeed stored off-road or in a garage.

VERA1994 is Primary Legislation. Read as normal English, it requires the number plate to be fixed and not obscured, and does not qualify that requirement.

"The law" is how legislation and common law are interpreted.

It might be the case that there is binding case law on some or all aspects of the scope of the provision - in which case that is the law.
Otherwise, the law is whatever the courts decide it is.

Road traffic legislation often specifies the scope of the provisions - some enactments apply to public roads, some to public roads and public places, and some universally.
Where no scope is specified, it is open to interpretation.

Also, when open to interpretation, it must be read in such a way as to give effect to ECHR rights. If replacing your own bumper while on your own property is a right protected by the ECHR, "the law" does not require you to display a numberplate while changing your bumper on your own property - regardless of whether or not it would have otherwise.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: The Rookie on March 19, 2024, 09:17:39 am
This really doesn't seem right...
There are many errors in the laws.

But what was stated is correct even though I can't see anyone ever being prosecuted for such an 'artificial' offence.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: 666 on March 19, 2024, 07:21:13 am
What if there's no VRN fitted? A while ago "someone I know" had to deliver a bus from Tilbury to Dover for export (on trade plates), I wonder what the vendor in a shady yard round the Tilbury Marshes thought of the Datrtford Toll fees?
The law (VERA 1994 s.42) requires the number plate to be fixed, and not obscured (s.43) at all times.

There are no exceptions for trade plates, transporters or indeed stored off-road or in a garage.
So nobody can lawfully have any repairs done to a car which require a number plate to be removed.
 
Nobody can ever have a respray done both properly and lawfully.

Nobody can store a car on private land with a cover over it.


This really doesn't seem right...
I don't make the laws!
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: slapdash on March 19, 2024, 05:13:43 am
It came up fairly recently on Pepipoo.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: guest968 on March 19, 2024, 12:35:24 am
What if there's no VRN fitted? A while ago "someone I know" had to deliver a bus from Tilbury to Dover for export (on trade plates), I wonder what the vendor in a shady yard round the Tilbury Marshes thought of the Datrtford Toll fees?
The law (VERA 1994 s.42) requires the number plate to be fixed, and not obscured (s.43) at all times.

There are no exceptions for trade plates, transporters or indeed stored off-road or in a garage.
So nobody can lawfully have any repairs done to a car which require a number plate to be removed.
 
Nobody can ever have a respray done both properly and lawfully.

Nobody can store a car on private land with a cover over it.


This really doesn't seem right...
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: slapdash on March 18, 2024, 09:46:23 pm
Sorry, I was attempting to describe what I was instructed to do, not what I was required to do.

Offences commited whilst trade plates are in use can be a cause of bother for registered keepers due to the lack of oversight.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: Chijiki on March 18, 2024, 02:54:53 pm
. . . . . . trade plates had to be inside the vehicle. . . .

That has NEVER been the case.

Current advice from .GOV.UK . . . . . . . . .

How to display your trade plates

When you display trade plates, you must:

    put them on both the front and back of the vehicle, or just the back for motorcycles
    make them visible and easily readable from a distance of 20 metres
    put them on the outside of the vehicle
    not cover the existing number plates, unless it’s a motorcycle
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: slapdash on March 18, 2024, 01:28:38 pm
I am naturally sure that is the case. I do recall delivering once a few years ago when it was explained the trade plates had to be inside the vehicle. They also had to visible.

Slightly tricky on a van with a solid pair of rear doors.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: 666 on March 18, 2024, 12:47:58 pm
What if there's no VRN fitted? A while ago "someone I know" had to deliver a bus from Tilbury to Dover for export (on trade plates), I wonder what the vendor in a shady yard round the Tilbury Marshes thought of the Datrtford Toll fees?
The law (VERA 1994 s.42) requires the number plate to be fixed, and not obscured (s.43) at all times.

There are no exceptions for trade plates, transporters or indeed stored off-road or in a garage.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: roythebus on March 18, 2024, 12:24:50 pm
What if there's no VRN fitted? A while ago "someone I know" had to deliver a bus from Tilbury to Dover for export (on trade plates), I wonder what the vendor in a shady yard round the Tilbury Marshes thought of the Datrtford Toll fees?
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: slapdash on March 17, 2024, 04:34:29 pm
Of course. I imagine one gets a similar problem with trade plates where you must not cover the existing plate (*).

It is a minor frustration that the overarching oversight of potential camera generated offences is so limited.

(*) I don't know if it would be an offence but "must"is the word used in the guidance
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: The Slithy Tove on March 17, 2024, 12:56:46 pm
Which is all why you often see the number plate of cars being towed/transported covered up.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: slapdash on March 17, 2024, 10:50:15 am
Here in Somerset the Police tend to send an advisory about no insurance in the first instance to encourage people.

I have one my son showed me. It looked as though it was taken from some form of onboard camera in a police car.

It was his project car being trailered back to his drive.
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: DWMB2 on March 17, 2024, 10:02:32 am
If it was on the back of a transporter, I imagine its emissions would have been 'ultra low' at the time!
Title: Re: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: BigBazz45 on March 17, 2024, 09:07:16 am
Better link, without the Facebook cruft: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/comment/article-13204481/JEFF-PRESTRIDGE-Ulez-fine-driver-car-lorry.html
Title: ULEZ charge for car on transporter
Post by: roythebus on March 17, 2024, 08:29:28 am
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thisismoney.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Fcomment%2Farticle-13204481%2FJEFF-PRESTRIDGE-Ulez-fine-driver-car-lorry.html%3Fito%3Dnative_share_article-top%26fbclid%3DIwAR08LznHeHrU2nBI0AnCC5uPVcepN-_8qWnUvbv0QaIjh8I0mzMhj_2Sp8g&h=AT1I5fBMNoBokAS0yA3zf5V5nEYZpBfnwpK-cj92GFB5y8uKmcL_QkekM4komNPNPEWZTyDZFWXqi1NtiV8BAcwlWXr-bNWm0yxmz_BGJ_zbig39GkdwqbMAcrTu1EX2fZJxcy5oz4PXgDm56_tq1bQ&__tn__=%2CmH-R&c[0]=AT3F7imjpxlxZ95GUaZMnwB46pAdtIfB9LgfzwSXHQg8QrNJD9F7_00TQ_-jqPHq2ChlleBi3t1Whl3PndYz3U1bil2sZ9mQDmnz8U6uR-MDu-vgJsc3-xc_nEvTwnsRT-Z7JsnJAJ4xnR732idUTLoupIpCbH7tp_yGNr-AThxUi48M7ir9-EHtRpa-t5G0nmmapRSTF-moWnMMS02FpfOpkhLL