Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: yy on March 10, 2024, 03:37:00 pm

Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: cp8759 on March 25, 2024, 10:41:56 pm
Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBGnr_Us3w8

The contravention occurs at the point of entry, which was at 9:43, the PCN alleges a contravention at 9:44, ergo the contravention alleged did not occur. A bit late for the OP now but a salutary reminder to always check the basics.
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: H C Andersen on March 13, 2024, 08:18:33 am
It is not the OP's PCN, for some reason their friend has passed this to them.

OP, your friend will remain liable for the penalty.

@Hippocrates, the wording of the PCN is:

'The vehicle was being used without your consent - IF the vehicle had been stolen...'

IMO, this doesn't misrepresent the regs, the wording simply gives an example of being used without consent and says that if this is to be relied upon then evidence in the form of a crime report would be required.

OP, I would not risk your friend's discount of £65 on this point.

Yes, there's a chance that Redbridge might c**k-up procedurally and if your friend is prepared to risk £65 on this, then make reps and hope they re-offer the discount if these fail. Given that the contravention seems clear, you're in the realm of probabilities as regards their procedures, IMO there is no silver bullet.

Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: Hippocrates on March 12, 2024, 07:27:12 pm
The TWOC ground issue was won v this council years ago because they messed up the reply. I would use it.
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: Incandescent on March 12, 2024, 05:57:13 pm
Having looked at the video, you look to be absolutely bang-to-rights on the contravention itself. You charged into the box with no hesitation at all, and ended up stuck in the box because the car in front stopped and thus made you stop. The contravention is of entering the box and having to stop due to the presence of stationary vehicles, (the car in front). 

Of course the PCN can be flawed, and, indeed, Hippocrates has found an error in the text giving the statutory grounds of appeal. However, for this kind of error, the council will never give way, so you'd have to take them to London Tribunals for a decision, and that means the full PCN penalty would be in play.  So if you want a punt, take them all the way. Hippocrates may assist you with an appeal.
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: yy on March 12, 2024, 04:46:23 pm
Sorry, I am a little confused, I borrowed the car with permission of the owner, and entered the yellow box, thinking I will be able to exit the box, however as soon as I noticed that I could not exit, I tried reversing but the car behind me was already at the yellow box leaving me stuck on the box.

Is there anything I can appeal on? Either on the actual PCN or on the basis I was blocked in the box?

Thanks so much for your assistance.
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: Hippocrates on March 11, 2024, 09:26:04 pm
Verbatim.
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: yy on March 11, 2024, 03:27:20 pm
1
I make a collateral challenge in that the PCN is unenforceable because under the statutory grounds section of your PCN, relating to “The vehicle was being used without your consent” this clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the Statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner’s permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances or, indeed, make an insurance claim.

And I dont have to say who drove the car?
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: yy on March 11, 2024, 02:19:40 pm
here you go:
https://we.tl/t-iDKWqJYu8x
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: taffer87 on March 11, 2024, 02:10:08 pm
couldnt attach the video, as mp4 files are not allowed.

upload to another site and post link here plz
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: yy on March 11, 2024, 01:57:39 pm
couldnt attach the video, as mp4 files are not allowed.
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: yy on March 11, 2024, 01:34:28 pm
PCN: IZ29540426
Car reg: WV06 KMM
Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: Hippocrates on March 10, 2024, 08:14:10 pm
1
I make a collateral challenge in that the PCN is unenforceable because under the statutory grounds section of your PCN, relating to “The vehicle was being used without your consent” this clearly fetters to theft by its very wording that a crime report be provided. Therefore, this inaccurate reflection of the Statutory ground does not take into account that a relative, or friend, may have taken the vehicle without the owner’s permission so that the owner would not necessarily, if at all, report the matter to the Police in such circumstances or, indeed, make an insurance claim.

Title: Re: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: Incandescent on March 10, 2024, 06:21:47 pm
We need to see the video. Either download and post it here, or give us PCN Number and car reg so we can look at it.
Title: Islington - contravention code 31 Entering and stopping in a box junction - Caledonian Rd junction Roman way N7
Post by: yy on March 10, 2024, 03:37:00 pm
Hi.
I borrowed a car from my friend to take my child to a medical appointment.
When I approached this junction on Caledonian Rd.https://maps.app.goo.gl/fyqEomwGWouXfpp97 (https://maps.app.goo.gl/fyqEomwGWouXfpp97), where the traffic was still moving, I drove on the junction, but then it stopped without leaving space for me to drive it through, so I started reversing immediately, but I was blocked by the car behind me. [You can see this in the pictures that were provided by the council on the PCN.]
Is there anything that can be done about it?

Thanks in advance.

[attachment deleted by admin]