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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: rsg444 on July 03, 2023, 10:55:12 pm


Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 05, 2023, 07:11:36 pm
To be honest it's not terrible as far as representations go and you might well get a failure to consider, let's just wait and see what comes back.
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: rsg444 on July 05, 2023, 01:18:10 pm
The deadline for the 50% discount was 2359hrs last night - I was going to be out in the evening (don't bother with the new Indiana Jones movie BTW) so I had to send something while I had no meetings in my calendar and before I left home last night. However, I totally understand where you're coming from but unfortunately time was not on my side - I think the person was embarrassed to hand them over to me as I've (or more accurately "We've" - using other similar forums) have got him out of a couple of previous PCNs so he waited until the last minute to give me the Postal PCNs.

The appeal was along the lines of (not verbatim as I can no longer view my submission):

Dear Newham,

I received two PCNs for the alleged contravention on Osborne Road. The reason I entered the road was because on the 7th June I was required to carry out emergency works relating to a leaking mains water pipe feeding into a toilet cistern - I went to turn off the mains supply and assess the repair. The work was carried out on Cann Hall Road but due to No Right Turn restrictions, I entered Osborne Road to carry out a three point turn so that I could continue to Cann Hall Road. On the 9th June, I was required to attend Cann Hall Road again, this time to repair the mains water pipe now that the parts had arrived, so again due to the No Right Turns I entered Osborne Road to carry out a three point turn so that I could continue my journey to Cann Hall Road.

I draw your attention to the related traffic management order, specifically section 4C(VI):

Nothing in Article 3 shall apply to:

for the purpose of any building operation or demolition; or in connection with the
laying, ****, alteration or repair of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for
the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any communications network;

As the purpose of my journey was due to building operation and specifically the repair of the mains water feed into a cistern, please can you cancel this PCN and PCN X.

I can provide the invoice that was issued to the Landlord in relation to the work if required.

Regards.
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 04, 2023, 06:56:32 pm
Please post up exactly what you sent. Really you should have given us a chance to write a water-tight representation that might have resulted in a failure to consider. If you've gone off on your own with a half-baked case, the council could probably get away with writing any old rubbish.

If you hurry up we might be in time for you to send an additional representation.
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: rsg444 on July 04, 2023, 01:03:53 pm
Thanks, so it turns out he actually received 2 PCNs - honestly I am frustrated to receive this info piecemeal myself so apologies for conveying it to you all in this manner.

First PCN was due to him going into Osborne Road on 07/06/2023 to carry out a 3 point turn as he was unable to take a right (No Right Turn) from Woodgrange Road to get to Cann Hall Road which is where the job was.

The second PCN was on 09/06/2023 again for the same reason. I asked him, why twice?! He said on the 7th he went to turn the water supply to the cistern off. Then he ordered the parts and returned on the 9th to fit it and it was job done. What he didn't realise was that Osborne Road is a restricted road and as he received the PCNs nearly 2 weeks later, he was unable to learn from his first mistake.

I have appealed both citing that he went to fix a leaking toilet mains pipe and that he went in to carry out a three point turn due to a no right turn - lets see what they come back with I suppose.
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: Incandescent on July 04, 2023, 11:15:00 am
The traffic order exemption does not specify it has to be an emergency. The nature of the job was a repair. Best to get a witness statement off the person who requested the repair. They'll have no excuse then.
Quote
a vehicle being used –
...
(vi) for the purpose of any building operation or demolition; or in connection with the laying, ****, alteration or repair of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any communications network;
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: rsg444 on July 04, 2023, 09:46:35 am
He has an invoice that he sent to the landlord but it just says maintenance - maybe he can ask the landlord to write a supporting letter or something or he can issue an updated invoice.
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 03, 2023, 11:55:27 pm
Quote from: rsg444 on July 03, 2023, 11:29:09 pm
Call for the job came from the Landlord for one of their rented properties, the tenant had called the Landlord to inform them that the mains feed into the cistern was leaking a lot.
Can he get paperwork to back that up?

The traffic order has an exemption for:

a vehicle being used –
...
(vi) for the purpose of any building operation or demolition; or in connection with the laying, ****, alteration or repair of any sewer or of any main, pipe or apparatus for the supply of gas, water or electricity, or of any communications network;
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: rsg444 on July 03, 2023, 11:29:09 pm
Call for the job came from the Landlord for one of their rented properties, the tenant had called the Landlord to inform them that the mains feed into the cistern was leaking a lot.
Title: Re: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: cp8759 on July 03, 2023, 11:27:41 pm
The video doesn't show much:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2TZ_6CJtBI

The traffic order is The Newham (Pedestrian and Cycle Zone) (No. 5) Traffic Order 2022 (https://bit.ly/3lZCR4X) which has some relevant exemptions, but we'll need a lot more detail of what sort of emergency he was attending, for instance was it a householder or a business?
Title: Pedestrian Zone - Newham - Osborne Road
Post by: rsg444 on July 03, 2023, 10:55:12 pm
Hi all,

A relative received the following PCN for driving into a pedestrianised zone in Newham:

The PCN can be found using the link below:

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AnmXGxrrsC7wgg-4VQE-Vpq6Qnej?e=6x8if4

I am going to have to submit an appeal tonight due to the 14 days expiring at Midnight today. But if any pointers can be given, that'd be great.

In case anyone is wondering, I was only given the PCN today. The circumstances are that the driver went to attend an emergency job (burst water pipe from mains into toilet cistern) on Cann Hall Road, he was unable to turn right to get to that road due to a road closure (I don't have further details), so he went into Osborne Road to do a 3 point turn and went back into Woodgrange Road.

Newham don't allow an informal challenge if you receive the PCN by post, it went straight to a formal challenge.

Thanks.