Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: gosha on February 25, 2024, 10:43:19 pm

Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: H C Andersen on September 21, 2024, 09:24:03 pm
I explained earlier.

The authority are required to refer the matter to the adjudicator, which it appears they have done.

The adjudicator decides either to register the case as an appeal or may issue directions(NOT decisions) to you and/or the authority.

This is where you are.

You've been flummoxed by the incorrect use of terms on the council's website.

Procedurally there is nothing for you to do provided that the authority and adjudicator know your contact address for the service of directions.

(2) A witness statement must state one and only one of the following—

...

(b)that P made representations to the enforcement authority under regulation 5 of the 2022 Appeals Regulations but a notice of rejection was not received from that authority in accordance with regulation 6 of those Regulations;

.....

(7) Where a witness statement is served including a statement under paragraph (2)(b)....... the enforcement authority must refer the case to the adjudicator.

....Where a case is referred to the adjudicator—

(a)the adjudicator may give P and the enforcement authority (“the parties”) such directions as the adjudicator considers appropriate in the circumstances, and

(b)the parties must comply with those directions.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on September 21, 2024, 08:32:29 pm
Sorry can someone help me with this query of mine. I am legally challenged, and I do not understand how the adjudicator comes into play when I have not received any notice of rejection, and neither have I been allowed to participate in this appeal (after TEC cancelled my Order of recovery).
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on September 20, 2024, 12:43:30 am
The PCN on the website says:

Quote
The Penalty Charge Notice is pending a decision from the Adjudicator. Your representations have been considered and have been rejected by the Council. The matter is currently on hold whilst the Adjudicator makes a decision which is final and binding in law. If your appeal is allowed then the Penalty Charge Notice will be cancelled. If your appeal is refused then you must pay the amount due within 28 days. Please wait for the decision from the Adjudicator before making any payment.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on September 20, 2024, 12:39:00 am
The 28-day deadline for issue of a new PCN has passed but I have not received any. Is it possible that the council is sending the PCN to the old address (to where the NTO was sent), despite the TEC order bearing the new address? Should I mail the council reminding them of the change in address?
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: H C Andersen on September 05, 2024, 03:22:36 pm
The ball is in the authority's court and what happens depends upon the grounds of your witness statement.

If, as seems likely, these were 'made reps but did not receive a NOR' then the authority must refer the matter to the adjudicator for their directions. In all probability, they would require you to produce a copy of your reps. It's also likely that the authority would provide you with a copy of their NOR.

In this process you cannot prove a negative, neither should inferences be drawn from your change of address. If you can show you made reps in time and a NOR was issued then the adjudicator should accept that this was not received.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on September 05, 2024, 11:56:22 am
Hi,

We changed houses, and I did not receive notice of rejection to the NTO. I followed the advice on the site and I  appealed to TEC and got the order of recovery cancelled. Attached copy (https://imgur.com/a/w5e0ubc).

Now the order of recovery mentions:

Quote
You should contact the local authority as they may take further action on it.
 

Is it legally necessary for me to mail to Croydon council and ask for status of PCN, or should I wait for them to take action themselves?

Tagging @H C Andersen
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: cp8759 on May 04, 2024, 12:12:33 am
Here you go:

Dear London Borough of Croydon,

The contravention alleged on the PCN is "Parked without displaying a valid pay & display ticket or voucher", but it is not physically possible to display a ringgo payment. Even if a valid cashless payment permit is in force, this will not be displayed. Given the RingGo payment facility you have put in place, the allegation stated on the PCN is essentially meaningless.

In any event at the material time I was engaged in purchasing my parking session. I first attempted to buy a session from the pay and display machine, but the machine did not accept my card payment. I then had to resort to using the cashless payment option, but this was not completed until four minutes after the CEO had issued the PCN. As I was in the process of purchasing the parking session and motorists are allowed the time that it is actually necessary to complete this process, the alleged contravention could not have occurred even if the cashless payment system resulted in the production of something that could be physically displayed on the dashboard.

Yours faithfully,

Send this via the council website and make sure to keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on May 03, 2024, 07:52:56 pm
Dear all,

I finally received the Notice to owner yesterday. The link is here (https://imgur.com/a/sI9DSiG). Will be grateful if you can all help me fight this unfair penalty and get justice.

Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: cp8759 on March 30, 2024, 09:42:24 pm
@gosha let us know when you get the notice to owner and we'll help you draft a formal representation.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on March 20, 2024, 01:36:11 am
I have received a notice of rejection - now intend to wait for the formal challenge.

This is the response received. My representation is as written in the earlier post above dated March 3 2024.

Quote
Thank you for writing to us. We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)
 
You were issued a PCN for not having a Pay and Display ticket that was both valid and clearly displayed. Even if you have a Pay and Display ticket, you have to display it so that a Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) can see all its details.

The Civil Enforcement Officer checks the Ringo system and pay and display machine for users before issuing the Penalty Charge Notice. If no-one is observed at the machine, the Officer proceeds to issue the Penalty Charge Notice. No further grace time is required to be given. While I sympathise with your comments I regret we are unable to cancel a PCN on this basis.


You have these choices:

You can pay the discount charge of £40.00 if your payment reaches us within 14 days of the date of this letter. If you choose to pay the discounted amount of £40.00 then the matter will be closed and you will have lost the right to appeal to the Environment & Traffic Adjudicators.
You can pay £80.00 within 28 days of the date your PCN was issued.
The registered keeper can formally challenge the PCN after the Notice to owner (NTO) is issued. The registered keeper will automatically receive the NTO if the PCN has not been paid within 28 days of being issued. The NTO offers the registered keeper the chance to formally challenge the PCN or pay the full £80.00. If the registered keeper decides to formally challenge the PCN, they should wait until the NTO arrives.
How to pay:

by phone 0345 3000 614 (24hr) touchtone using a debit or credit card (Visa, MasterCard, Delta, Maestro, Solo and Electron). Please have your PCN number and vehicle registration number to hand.
online at www.croydon.gov.uk/transportandstreet and select parking fine payment. Pay using a debit or credit card (Visa, MasterCard, Delta, Maestro, Solo and Electron). Please have your PCN number and vehicle registration number to hand.
in person at any Post Office using cash, cheque or debit card (Visa, MasterCard, Delta, Maestro, Solo and Electron). Or by cash only at any outlet displaying the Paypoint Logo. You will need either your PCN or a letter containing your PCN number and barcode. It is very important that you retain your receipt as a record of your payment.


 
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: cp8759 on March 18, 2024, 11:27:00 pm
@gosha did you submit a representation and if so, can you show us a copy of what you sent?

Your case is very similar to Lydia Russo v Plymouth City Council (PL00004-2401, 12 March 2024) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WW83Desv43qE8aviq2wez1KRsivNCqME/view) which I successfully argued the other week, it originated from this thread (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/plymouth-council-parked-without-a-pay-and-display-ticket-after-entering-wrong-re/).

I would definitely not be paying this so if they've reoffered the discount, please don't be tempted to pay.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: mrmustard on March 04, 2024, 12:30:41 am
Forget the discount. Your aim is to pay nothing. Your challenge: The contravention as alleged did not occur as one can pay by phone at that location, as I did, and one gets nothing to display.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on March 03, 2024, 10:31:41 pm
Hi, thanks for the heads-up. I have attached the council's photos in this link (https://imgur.com/a/uiG0eDr). There are no videos to the PCN.

I have till this Friday for submitting the appeal with the discount in place.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: H C Andersen on March 03, 2024, 04:00:03 pm
Your draft goes to mitigation only.

Let me expand on my previous post.

The contravention has NOTHING to do with payment as such, it is that a ticket or voucher was not displayed which can and does happen whether payment is made or not. Therefore, as regards the alleged contravention your receipt is not relevant.

So:
If payment by RingGo is permitted then the contravention is wrong because display is not a condition of parking AND you paid, if you selected the correct numeric location, or

If payment by RingGo is not allowed then the contravention is correct and even if you paid it must have been for a different location.

GSV suggests that all parking places are P&D or pay by phone.

You've hidden your VRM so we cannot access the council's photos.

Pl either post your VRM or the council's photos.

Don't submit your draft pl.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on March 03, 2024, 12:39:26 am
This is my latest version, please give feedback.

Quote
On the said day, I arrived at the parking spot right about the same time as the start of the observation period mentioned in the PCN. I had an issue with my card at the machine, so I used the Ringgo app installed on my wife's mobile to pay for the parking ticket. My ticket starts from 20:10 and runs till 21:10.

I was not very far from the car all the while and do not understand how I missed seeing the officer. If not, I could have explained the situation to him/her.

I also have attached evidence from my Google timeline to show that my presence at my friends' apartment nearby commenced at around the same time when the ticket was issued. This evidence proves I had not parked much earlier and left the car without a ticket.

The council gives a reasonable allowance for people to pay for parking after their arrival. In this instance, my parking receipt and my Google timeline prove I have not committed a parking violation by leaving my car without a permit for a substantial period of time.

I request you to consider the situation and evidence and cancel the ticket.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on February 29, 2024, 10:08:59 pm
Thanks, this is the draft I intend to send. Please can you help me correct it to a formal version.
Quote
I am writing to formally contest the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) numbered [Insert PCN Number], issued on 22 Feb 2024 at Croydon. I respectfully request a review and subsequent cancellation of this charge based on mitigating circumstances surrounding the incident.

On the mentioned date, I encountered technical difficulties with the physical parking meter, which prevented me from completing the transaction promptly. I had every intention of complying with parking regulations and have purchased a parking ticket at 2010 through Ringo. Compounded by inclement weather, I was compelled to seek shelter to use the RingGo application on my mobile device to secure parking payment, which was successfully processed at 20:10.

Regrettably, during this brief and unforeseen delay, a penalty notice was issued at 20:06, a mere four minutes prior to my payment confirmation. I believe this situation constitutes a reasonable exception, as the delay was minimal and resulted from circumstances beyond my control.

Had I been aware of the parking enforcement officer's presence, I would have sought their understanding and assistance in resolving the payment issue. It is under these exceptional circumstances that I appeal to your sense of fairness and request that the penalty charge be waived.

I have attached evidence of the parking payment made through the RingGo application, which substantiates my claim of intending to comply with parking regulations promptly.

I trust you will find my appeal reasonable and consider the extenuating factors presented. I am hopeful for a favorable resolution and am willing to provide any further information required.

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: H C Andersen on February 27, 2024, 12:27:38 pm
IMO, it's the wrong contravention.

It is self-evident that if drivers are permitted to purchase parking rights by phone then everyone who does would 'fail' to display a valid pay and display ticket or voucher.

So, either they've made a mistake or you did and location 19515 has nothing to do with the restriction applying to where you were parked.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: Incandescent on February 27, 2024, 11:27:09 am
No need for an apology. Just submit representations on the lines of your narrative here, namely ticket machine would not take your card, so you then used the pay-by-phone alternative for the car park, (Ringo). State that all this took place at or near the ticket machine, so you did not see the CEO arrive, or else you would have informed him that you were engaged in buying a parking session on your phone. Point out that it is a well established principle of parking enforcement that time must be allowed for purchasing a parking session, and that payment was made for parking.  Post up your draft here for review and then their response when you get it. include a copy of the Ringo parking session in your reps.
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on February 26, 2024, 11:53:07 pm
I was just around the area, and I do not understand how I missed spotting the officer. Can you help me figure what to say as an apology for being 4 minutes late?
Title: Re: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: Incandescent on February 26, 2024, 12:56:29 am
So where were you when the PCN was issued ? Whilst time is allowed to pay for parking, it is never a good idea when using PbP to not be at the car-park. A CEO arrives, checks the cars for PbP parking that have no machine ticket, and if no session, issues a PCN, simple, what else should he do ?  However, your narrative indicates you were in the process of paying for the parking, but took a bit longer than normal.  So you need to submit representations that you were engaged in paying for the parking using your phone when the CEO issued the PCN. If they refuse your reps you can take them to adjudication on the matter, but the full PCN penalty will be in play.
Title: Croydon Contravention 06 - Parked without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket
Post by: gosha on February 25, 2024, 10:43:19 pm
Hi all,


This Fri night, I got a PCN after parking the car and searching for the Pay and display. It was rainy and my card was rejected at the meter, so I had to install Ringgo and get the payment done online. My session started at 20:10, and the ticket had been issued four minutes earlier at 20:06. Is there any way to get this unfair ticket removed?



PCN image

(https://i.imgur.com/cHMdI4E.png)

Parking receipt:

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1kULUU.png)