Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: moctey on February 08, 2024, 01:23:40 pm
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My view on this reflects the traffic management reason for having a "Schools Street". It is to protect the children from moving traffic that has the capability of causing death or serious injury i.e. vehicles at speed.
To say a pushed motorbike has that capacity is ludicrous unless it toppled over and hurt someone.
That said, the contravention will always centre on a prescribed route restriction so going through the signage is the definitive factor.
Mike
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@moctey well you ignored the advice and you lost, we'll add this case to the unfortunate list I posted above.
Outcome here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1HtJ1x9i67ShMMjmlF-xUiN6_-wl9ii1j/view).
It's really unfortunate you didn't engage with us further as Mr Lane is one of the more well-disposed adjudicators and odds are we could have found something actually worth arguing.
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@moctey I suggest you call the tribunal first thing as ask for a hearing. A decision on the papers should be avoided for the reasons illustrated by these threads:
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/eta-appeal-lost/
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149680
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here are the files
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Package please.
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I have received the full evidence package, is it worth reviewing?
I strongly disagree with the comments above. From traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03 / Pedestrian Zones 6.1.1 it states:
"If a pedestrian zone is introduced on a road that was previously a signed route or was used by significant through
traffic, consideration should be given to providing or changing directional signing to guide
prohibited traffic to use the preferred alternative route, as described in 5.1.2"
Please note they say prohibited traffic and not prohibited vehicles.
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Walking the motorbike past a "No Motor Vehicles" restriction is still a contravention, because it is a motor vehicle. If this was allowed, every motorbike rider would be doing it, and quite a few (big and fit) car drivers too !
One cannot even walk it on a pavement either.
2220916876
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PLEASE:
1. The whole of the PCN as per Mr Mustard.
2. What did you write as per me?
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no it isn't
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OP, is the discount still available?
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I did try finding a TMO for this road, but couldn't find one. It appears it's part of the Lambeth "School streets" scheme.
However, I did find this: https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-04/Walnut%20Tree%20Walk%20Primary%20School%20-%20Walnut%20Tree%20Walk%20Closure.pdf
The maps show the "closure points", but they seem further in than where the signs are positioned (on both ends).
Then this map from the proposal shows barriers and signage being "just in front" of the disabled bay on the right - which is in front of where OP is positioned in all but the last photograph.
https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/commonplace-customer-assets/lambethemergencyschoolstreets/Walnut%20Tree%20Walk%2C%20Fitzalan%20St%20-%20WTW%20PS.pdf
(https://lambethschoolstreets.commonplace.is/en-GB/proposals/walnut-tree-walk-primary-school/step1)
Obviously notwithstanding the council changing the proposal and position of restriction, maybe some more knowledgeable folks would be able to do something with this.
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What did you write?
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yes I find this almost as dumb as giving someone a traffic offense because he is walking slowly because his bike is too heavy too push. Seriously those council persons supposed to work for their people have no shame and I find it amusing that people in this country don't push back. Anyway... I have submitted my appeal with no real arguments, I am going to lose this one.
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restricted for school from 8.15am to something like 10.
No motor vehicle... yes I agree but if we want to play dumb I can say that there is no proof that my vehicle had a motor at that time...
You are surely joking? I would save such a comment IF you win at Penderel's Oak rendezvous!
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As above. The only way out of this is a technical argument, a failure to consider or a mess up from them. We lost a case last year re a lady who pushed her motorcycle through a restricted area even when it was broken down. Islington. The case history is clear I am afraid.
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You have only given us 3 pages of the PCN, I need to see the fourth one please. It might not quite be compliant.
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See if the discount's still available* - if so I'd pay it.
If not, then you might as well appeal to the adjudicator.
*- 14 days from date of letter was actually yesterday, 8th.
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Except that if it has a reg. number, and is registered at the DVLA, it is classed as a motor vehicle. And no, pushing it on the footway is also banned as the restriction applies to the road, not just the carriageway.
Sorry to say it, but you seem to be bang-to-rights on this one.
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restricted for school from 8.15am to something like 10.
How often have you done this? Exactly the same circumstances? Any recently before this event?
=> yes many times this year, I bring my children to school and every time I am after 8.15 I push the bike...well until now, not taking the risk anymore, but I wonder if I can push on pavement.
No motor vehicle... yes I agree but if we want to play dumb I can say that there is no proof that my vehicle had a motor at that time...
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What are the restricted times?
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Motor vehicles prohibited (prohibits use of the road by motor vehicles)
...is what the sign means.
However, ' I stepped of my bike to push it by hand
because of the restriction. However I have done this many time and I am not sure what was different this time
because it's the first time I receive a PCN for doing that.'
How often have you done this? Exactly the same circumstances? Any recently before this event?
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Walking the motorbike past a "No Motor Vehicles" restriction is still a contravention, because it is a motor vehicle. If this was allowed, every motorbike rider would be doing it, and quite a few (big and fit) car drivers too !
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attached is the pcn
and my challenge:
Dear Sir or Madam,
On-line challenge for LJ26486094
On the grounds of:
The contravention did not occur
Reason:
At the time I am supposed to have been in contravention, the restriction did not apply
Further explanation :
This must have been issue automatically without taking into account that I stepped of my bike to push it by hand
because of the restriction. However I have done this many time and I am not sure what was different this time
because it's the first time I receive a PCN for doing that. Also my children are in the school on this street and I am
very happy that we have this
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Unfortunately yes. But, let's see the whole of the PCN plus your representations.
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The video evidence shows me at all time pushing my bike at a time where the area is restricted
For the council it doesn't exempt me from the restriction... are they right? Is there a way to escape this?
[attachment deleted by admin]