Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: FaintPanda on February 04, 2024, 09:13:35 pm

Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on July 02, 2024, 11:12:05 pm
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1duurfYJ4orQSwrQhRNYL1wgYnXtEpheb/view).
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 25, 2024, 11:27:27 am
Ah mate, I'm sorry it happened to you too!

How are the roads in your area? It isn't uncommon to see potholes deeper than 10cm, which are over 30cm in diameter here. That's on the main roads! The back roads may as well be dirt tracks at this point.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 25, 2024, 11:24:32 am
Thanks @cp8759

I was hoping to do this on my own back from research and advice, however this is the first council PCN I have had and appreciate having your expertise onboard.

Will gather all the information you need today.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Hippocrates on April 25, 2024, 09:26:40 am
@FaintPanda: I would take up cp8759's offer.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on April 25, 2024, 12:18:44 am
Best to put it in, as it is likely you might have to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. There is another much more shocking thread on this forum relating to Hereford CC and it is quite plain now, that the administrators are totally ignorant of the law they purport to enforce.

Apologies, I don't follow you. I believe I am at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal stage as they rejected my formal representation. I don't have a huge amount of time left to send over my appeal to the Tribunal.

I have been reading the other Hereford thread, honestly I am not surprised. I am eager to squash this PCN as the state of the roads here caused my wheel to buckle and of course they denied any liability, causing me to be out of pocket. Completely unrelated, but I wanted to vent about it ;D
Buckled my wheel last week in Cheshire East, and have raised a claim. I think councils have basically decided it's cheaper to just bat claims away, than actually maintain the roads.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on April 24, 2024, 11:34:40 pm
@FaintPanda would you like to be represented at the tribunal? I'll drop you a PM in case you would prefer that.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 22, 2024, 09:41:44 am
Best to put it in, as it is likely you might have to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. There is another much more shocking thread on this forum relating to Hereford CC and it is quite plain now, that the administrators are totally ignorant of the law they purport to enforce.

Apologies, I don't follow you. I believe I am at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal stage as they rejected my formal representation. I don't have a huge amount of time left to send over my appeal to the Tribunal.

I have been reading the other Hereford thread, honestly I am not surprised. I am eager to squash this PCN as the state of the roads here caused my wheel to buckle and of course they denied any liability, causing me to be out of pocket. Completely unrelated, but I wanted to vent about it ;D 
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on April 21, 2024, 09:07:14 pm
Best to put it in, as it is likely you might have to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. There is another much more shocking thread on this forum relating to Hereford CC and it is quite plain now, that the administrators are totally ignorant of the law they purport to enforce.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 21, 2024, 05:39:54 pm
Hello,

What is the best way for me to appeal this at the tribunal?

Should I send off a revised version of my formal representation along with additional points of how the rejection letter didn't address why Hereford Council weren't abiding to the rules outlined in the Traffic Management Act of 2004?
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 18, 2024, 09:47:32 am
Is there any templates I can use to write my appeal? Are the points the same as what I raised during my formal representation?
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on April 15, 2024, 06:39:40 pm
OK so off to adjudication you now go.  Clearly their knowledge of the regulations is deficient, or non-existent. If the regulation says something must be in the PCN then there is no escape from that if it isn't
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 15, 2024, 03:31:17 pm
Well... Hereford Council rejected my representation... They seemed more interested as to why I didn't explain why my car was parked there...

What are the next steps for me to do now?

(https://i.imgur.com/tsfYtaE.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XsQuSBp.jpeg)
(https://imgur.com/pBMrsTa.jpeg)
(https://imgur.com/gGHWmrI.jpeg)
(https://imgur.com/xNsz26i.jpeg)
(https://imgur.com/6OusZJH.jpeg)
(https://imgur.com/vC8Ejbz.jpeg)

Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on April 06, 2024, 12:57:19 am
Is it normal to have to post this off, rather than submit it online? No where does it say that there is an online option available, only post.
You can make representations here https://councilparking.org/herefordshire/Pages/OnlineReferenceEntry.aspx?loadtype=FORMAL

Keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on April 05, 2024, 02:01:55 pm
Some councils are still in the age of quill pens and wigs, I'm afraid.

On their website, one can challenge a PCN, but it seems only paper, pen, and ink, representations are permitted to submit formal representations.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on April 05, 2024, 12:34:36 pm
Is it normal to have to post this off, rather than submit it online? No where does it say that there is an online option available, only post.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on March 31, 2024, 11:43:06 pm
@FaintPanda that will do but please note it's not an appeal, it's a representation. When the council inevitably rejects, we'll help with the appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on March 30, 2024, 12:39:44 am
It is not the Road Management Act 2004, but the Traffic Management Act 2004, however the PCN is not compliant with the regulation that supports operation of the Act, so you should state this, not the TMA2004 -  The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022


These regulations are supported by Section 80 and 89 of the TMA 2004

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/80
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/section/89

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2022/9780348232752/contents

In other words, the TMA 2004 gives powers to government ministers to introduce regulations related to the provisions contained in the Act.

So, delete all reference to the TMA 2004, and substitute with the title of the regulations.

Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on March 29, 2024, 09:35:58 pm
Thanks for the feedback @Incandescent - I have tweaked some of the wording. Feedback is welcome.

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to challenge the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued to me on 1st Feb 2024 for the contravention code "23 - Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle." I firmly believe that the PCN was unjustly issued due to procedural impropriety on the part of the Hereford Council.

During my informal representation, I explicitly brought to the attention of Hereford Council the failure to adhere to the procedural requirements outlined in the Road Management Act 2004. Despite highlighting this crucial aspect and providing supporting evidence, the council failed to acknowledge or address this issue in their response to my informal challenge.

Furthermore, it has been demonstrated in previous cases that contravention code "23" has been successfully challenged due to motorists' lack of understanding regarding the class of vehicle designated for the parking space [Reference, A, B, C]. The PCN received only states that the vehicle was parked in a "Parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle", the PCN does not contain any wording around what class of vehicles are permitted.

According to the Traffic Management Act (2004) Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C [that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner]. However, the PCN which was issued fails to meet this requirement. This oversight on the part of the council constitutes a clear violation of the Road Management Act 2004 and undermines the fairness and legality of the PCN issued to me.

In light of the above, I kindly request that Hereford Council review the evidence and withdraw the PCN issued to me. I trust that upon further examination of the facts presented, the council will acknowledge the procedural impropriety and rectify this matter accordingly.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to receiving a prompt response.

References:

A: Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QtmX9lLTLTQx6uRa9NDzJvfXcJuhzylV]
B: Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107, 04 October 2021) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUYGSdtOnnkZXwyyv3pZrXjhnyjMAMbe]
C: Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October 2020) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XqKhehvagEzi4MgvPQZEk65cZ2VuCDDg]
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on March 29, 2024, 09:21:37 pm
YOu are not "appealing", you are submitting "representations".Appeals are considered at the adjudicators at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal. Councils hate being told their PCNs are non-compliant, so just ignore informal reps on this basis, thus forcing you to TPT. However I will be very interested in what their inevitable rejection letter says !
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on March 29, 2024, 08:36:40 pm
Draft Formal Appeal - I would love some feedback on what should be modified here.

To Whom It May Concern,

I am writing to appeal the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued to me on 1st Feb 2024 for the contravention code "23 - Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle." I firmly believe that the PCN was unjustly issued due to procedural impropriety on the part of the Hereford Council.

During my informal appeal process, I explicitly brought to the attention of the Hereford Council the failure to adhere to the procedural requirements outlined in the Road Management Act 2004. Despite highlighting this crucial aspect and providing supporting evidence, the council failed to acknowledge or address this issue in their response to my informal appeal.

Furthermore, it has been demonstrated in previous cases that contravention code "23" has been successfully challenged due to motorists' lack of understanding regarding the class of vehicle designated for the parking space [Reference, A, B, C]. The PCN received only states that the vehicle was parked in a "Parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle", the PCN does not contain any wording around what class of vehicles are permitted.

According to Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C, [that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner]. However, the PCN which was issued fails to meet this requirement. This oversight on the part of the council constitutes a clear violation of the Road Management Act 2004 and undermines the fairness and legality of the PCN issued to me.

In light of the above, I kindly request that the Hereford Council review my appeal and withdraw the PCN issued to me. I trust that upon further examination of the facts presented, the council will acknowledge the procedural impropriety and rectify this matter accordingly.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. I look forward to receiving a prompt response regarding the status of my appeal.

References:

A: Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QtmX9lLTLTQx6uRa9NDzJvfXcJuhzylV]
B: Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107, 04 October 2021) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUYGSdtOnnkZXwyyv3pZrXjhnyjMAMbe]
C: Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October 2020) [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XqKhehvagEzi4MgvPQZEk65cZ2VuCDDg]

Yours sincerely,
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on March 29, 2024, 08:26:42 pm
NtO Received - Images Attached

(https://imgur.com/fvOebW1.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/rjISTUR.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/ZEcXAC1.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/nWBwM46.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/6UPw8oE.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/R2gCtvD.jpg)
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on March 05, 2024, 01:10:06 am
There are no templates, but post up your draft here for review and if it needs tidying up, we'll suggest what alterations are needed. The basis of your response to an NtO is 'procedural impropriety', one of the statutory grounds in the Traffic Management Act 2004 under which your PCN was issued.

Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on March 04, 2024, 11:58:55 pm
Perfect, I will start drafting them up an appeal ready to.send when the NtO arrives.

Is there templated documents for this appeal or is it a case of building my own?
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on March 04, 2024, 07:37:56 pm
So they have totally ignored your point about not following the regulations on PCN content. If it were me, I'd take the to the tribunal. If motorists must obey the law, so must councils, and the law is clear here.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on March 04, 2024, 05:49:28 pm
Received my informal appeal back - Rejected.

Do I have a strong enough case to wait for the NtO and take this all the way to the Traffic Tribunal?

Full PDF of appeal is attached, however here are the key points

Quote
Thank you for your correspondence received on February 4 2024, concerning the above Penalty Charge
Notice. I have viewed your mitigation and the evidence of the Civil Enforcement Officer on the day in
question.
CONTRAVENTION
The Penalty Charge Notice was issued as you Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that
class of vehicle.

MITIGATION
I appreciate you feel that the Penalty Charge Notice was not issued correctly, this was not the case.
Only goods vehicles in the process of loading or unloading are permitted to use the bay. Any other vehicle
parked here is liable to be issued an immediate Penalty Charge Notice, even if loading or unloading is
taking place. The definition of a goods vehicle is one of construction and not of use. A lorry or a van is a
goods vehicle, a car is not. As your vehicle is not a goods vehicle, alternative parking should have been
sought from the outset.

At the time the Penalty Charge Notice was issued the vehicle was in close proximity of a post mounted sign
detailing the restriction in place, with bay markings advising that it was for loading only. It is the driver's
responsibility to check their parking location prior to leaving the vehicle parked.
Please see the photographs taken, they show the vehicle was parked in close proximity of a post mounted
sign detailing the restrictions in place. I can confirm at the time the Penalty Charge Notice was issued, the
vehicle was parked wholly in the good vehicle loading parking bay.

CHALLENGE DECISION
As the relevant signage was in place you have no grounds with which I can reconsider this Penalty Charge
Notice, therefore I have upheld the Penalty Charge Notice and rejected your challenge.
I will still accept the discounted amount of £35.00, provided payment is received within 14 days of the date
of this letter. Payment can be made by post to the address shown below making sure that the Penalty
Charge Number is included, by credit/debit card by telephoning (01432) 260200 in office hours or through
the Council’s website at http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/pay/ at any time. If you are still in possession of
the original white Penalty Charge Notice you can also make a payment at any Post Office or any Pay Zone
outlet using the bar code provided on the Penalty Charge Notice.
Please Note: We will not accept any further correspondence over this matter at informal stage. However, if
you are the registered keeper of the vehicle, you may appeal formally. If you wish to do this then you need
to leave the Penalty Charge Notice unpaid and allow it to revert to the full amount. Once this has
happened, details of the registered keeper will be sought from the DVLA and a Notice to Owner will be sent
to this named person at the address provided by the DVLA. The registered keeper can make
representations which will be considered by this office. If the representations are rejected then an appeal
can be made with the Traffic Penalty Tribunal at this time. The Traffic Penalty Tribunal’s decision is final
and binding on both parties.

Informal Appeal Sent

Quote
Dear Hereford Council,

I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not including mandatory information defined within the Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) Regulations 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

As the PCN fails to meet the mandatory requirements I kindly request that this PCN is immediately canceled.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on February 22, 2024, 12:01:26 am
Love it, if you scroll down on the link you provided you can download the Parking Enforcements and Appeals Policy which is the document which I linked to. I didn't think I went into the weeds to find an outdated policy! It's posted right on that page 😅.

Thanks for pulling all that information out, I took a deeper dive into Hereford Councils appeal stats. They only had 8 PCNs go to the Appeals Tribunal last year! I would have expected a chunk more than that if they have glaring issues with their PCNs.

I really appreciate the help from everyone with this.
Unfortunately most people just cough-up, either when they get the PCN, or when their informal reps are rejected; like about 95%, so the councils never get brought up short on their malpractices.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 21, 2024, 10:21:12 pm
Love it, if you scroll down on the link you provided you can download the Parking Enforcements and Appeals Policy which is the document which I linked to. I didn't think I went into the weeds to find an outdated policy! It's posted right on that page 😅.

Thanks for pulling all that information out, I took a deeper dive into Hereford Councils appeal stats. They only had 8 PCNs go to the Appeals Tribunal last year! I would have expected a chunk more than that if they have glaring issues with their PCNs.

I really appreciate the help from everyone with this.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: H C Andersen on February 21, 2024, 05:20:02 pm
?
OP, I think you and the council need to update your references and policies!

As regards the council's processes, what you've posted is incorrect, their website (https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/parking-1/parking-fines/2) states:

While we do aim to reply to all challenges within 14 days this can be delayed at times of high volume and demand. Please do not re-challenge a PCN once you have challenged as this will push your response further down the challenge list and cause further delays.

Once we receive a challenge to a notice, we'll put that notice on hold until we have responded.

If a challenge is received within 14 days of the date the Penalty Charge Notice was issued and is unsuccessful, a further 14 days will be given for you to pay at the discounted amount.


And then we have its 'parking fines appeals and representations protocols'!

Herefordshire Council
Parking Enforcement & Appeals –
Operational Guidance
Date: October 2018
Updated: January 2022

Version: 1.6

Each page then refers to 'Version 1.5', doh!
This draws on the Secretary of State's 'Operational and Statutory Guidance', but they've taken their eye off the ball because the Operational Guidance was withdrawn in October 2022 at the same time that the Statutory Guidance was updated and republished as a single document.

Therefore, the council's policy is out of date and they have committed a procedural impropriety by virtue of not complying with S87 Traffic Management Act which states:
 
S87
Guidance to local authorities
(1)The appropriate national authority may publish guidance to local authorities about any matter relating to their functions in connection with the civil enforcement of traffic contraventions.

(2)In exercising those functions a local authority must have regard to any such guidance.


In the context of this case, the most glaring error is the council's failure to attach a suffix code to the contravention grounds which is now required by virtue of Annex B to the Stat Guidance:

Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.   Suffix required to fully describe contravention.

I suspect the wording of the PCN omits specific reference to the owner having to make representations within the period specified in the NTO because their policy is to halt progress of a PCN until a response has been sent. IMO, this isn't a justifiable reason but it might explain the omission.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 21, 2024, 03:29:55 am
I haven't heard anything back from Hereford council and it had now been 14 days since I sent the appeal off to them.

According to their own appeals process, they should have reached out if they are unable to respond within 10 working days. How much weight does this hold?

The Council will aim to reply to all correspondence within 10 working days of receipt.
If a full reply cannot be sent in that time an acknowledgement letter will be sent within five days of receipt.

https://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/downloads/file/13369/parking-supplementary-enforcement-and-appeals-policy
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on February 09, 2024, 07:22:09 pm
The County of Herefordshire District Council (U80000 Broad Street, Hereford) (Prohibition of Waiting Loading  Unloading) (Street Parking for Goods Vehicles, Bullion Vehicles and Coaches) Order 2015 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DrqyJGMSGhN0su1EdLd7N961vfrH3-aZ/view).
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on February 07, 2024, 12:29:50 am
Did you just email Hereford council?
I made a specifically crafted EIR request.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 06, 2024, 12:54:10 am
Out of interest, how did you order the traffic order for the bay? Did you just email Hereford council?

I am the Registered Keeper. The V5C document has my mother's address on, but she let's me know if any post turns up.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on February 05, 2024, 10:25:02 pm
It looks like the council website won't show the photos until you have a web code, which you get with the notice to owner. You can raise any additional points at the next stage, so don't send anything off without getting us to check it properly first.

I'm sure the council will reject, but in the meantime I have ordered the traffic regulation order for the bay. Are you the registered keeper, do you have the V5C, and is the address up to date?
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on February 05, 2024, 10:24:26 pm
All you've done so far is submit an informal challenge. These invariably result in a Fob-Off letter. Why ? Because councils know that if they issue such letters, most people (like over 95%), just cough-up.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 05, 2024, 08:42:13 pm
@cp8759

I was taking a read though the sources you posted, Mary Harding's case is very similar to mine. She won on the grounds that the PCN wasn't clear that she had parked in a loading only bay, only that she:

Quote
being parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle.

She won because the PCN didn't contain enough information

Quote
A motorist reading the PCN would not understand from the wording the
nature of the alleged contravention because there is nothing to explain the
class of vehicle for which the parking place was designated. The PCN
needs to identify, whether by wording or images, that the class of vehicle
for which the bay is designated is goods vehicles only.
I therefore find that the PCN was invalid and the appeal is allowed for that
reason.

I also see that Robert won on a very similar point

Quote
I therefore find that the contravention code used was deficient in that the suffix was not used. If the
suffix had been used together with the words “goods vehicle loading bays” it would have been more
clear to the driver what he had done wrong. I therefore agree with Mr that there was a
procedural impropriety.

Seems as I have ready submitted my appeal, which I suspect they will reject, am I still in a good position to add the following points above at the next stage?
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: H C Andersen on February 05, 2024, 04:45:47 pm
Were you the driver? This is council land so there's no purpose served in referring to 'driver' in the third person.

Have you looked at the photos? If it's your car, then it is.

The sign limits parking to buses and goods vehicles at specified times. Your standard car is neither.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 05, 2024, 02:22:45 pm
Ah, I sent it off last night :(

GSV (exact location): https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0558016,-2.7175192,3a,75y,260.16h,70.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-bcmDoB2hUBTkJdWc4n0ww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

PCN: HE53193378
REG: WN22 HVE
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: cp8759 on February 04, 2024, 10:38:55 pm
@FaintPanda don't send that, we can do much, much better.

To understand why, have a read of these cases:

Mary Harding v Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames (2160271291, 26 July 2016) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QtmX9lLTLTQx6uRa9NDzJvfXcJuhzylV)
Yuriy Myronovyh V The City Of Edinburgh Council (ED00154-2107, 04 October 2021) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OUYGSdtOnnkZXwyyv3pZrXjhnyjMAMbe)
Robert Piatt v Manchester City Council (MC00876-2010, 15 October 2020) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XqKhehvagEzi4MgvPQZEk65cZ2VuCDDg)

However before we even get to that, we want to know if a contravention is made out, whether there's a traffic order and so on. To that end, please give us the PCN number and the number plate, and a link to the exact location on google street view.
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 04, 2024, 09:44:13 pm
Oh hello there Incandescent! Thanks for your help with this on Pepipoo! I will fire off this appeal unless there are any other adjustments I need to make.

Quote
Dear Hereford Council,

I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not including mandatory information defined within the Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) Regulations 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

As the PCN fails to meet the mandatory requirements I kindly request that this PCN is immediately canceled.

@Hippo
Quote
Re chances of success: ask the SAS.

 ;D  ;D  ;D  - I am sure they have more important things going on than dealing with the local council!
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Incandescent on February 04, 2024, 09:30:55 pm
Needs full title of the regulations
Title: Re: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: Hippocrates on February 04, 2024, 09:21:05 pm
incorrect standards. Re chances of success: ask the SAS.

I would simply state the PCN is substantially non-compliant because:

The PCN does not contain the following mandatory information as stated under the Road Traffic Contraventions of 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

Please cancel.
Title: PCN - Parking in Loading Bay - Hereford Council
Post by: FaintPanda on February 04, 2024, 09:13:35 pm
Hello,

[X-Post from Pepipoo]

My car was apparently parked in a Loading Only bay. It is a standard car. The signage shows that the restrictions are from 0600hrs - 1800hrs, the ticket was issued at 1748hrs; 12 minutes before the restrictions ended.

What is the best method of fighting this, or should the ticket just be paid? I can appeal the ticket, which honors the discount period.

GSV: Google Street View (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0558016,-2.7175192,3a,75y,260.16h,70.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-bcmDoB2hUBTkJdWc4n0ww!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)

NOTE: The restrictions sign is much lower than it shows on Google, unsure if that makes any difference. The sign is just above where the lamppost goes narrows.

Front of PCN
(https://imgur.com/Y1YRiX3.jpeg)

Back of PCN
(https://imgur.com/79Gy93k.jpeg)

I have been advised that the PCN is flawed due to not being complaint to:

The Civil Enforcement of Road Traffic Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (England) Regulations 2022
Quote
CHAPTER 1
Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
Information about right to make representations or appeal to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—

(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
©that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.

Is the following enough for a informal appeal, and what are the chances of success?

Quote
Dear Hereford Council,

I am appealing PCN: XXXX due to the PCN not following the requirements stated under the Road Traffic Contraventions of 2022. Not following the mandatory requirements is a procedural impropriety under the Traffic Management Act 2004 and therefor the PCN is required to be cancelled.

The PCN fails to meet Part 2, Chapter 1, Section 3 (1), Paragraph C. Below is the extract of this requirement for ease of reference.

"that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner."

As the PCN from Hereford Council fails to confirm to this requirement; the PCN hasn't been issued according to the correct standards and therefor should be immediately canceled.

Kind regards,