Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 01:32:02 am

Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: cp8759 on February 20, 2024, 08:28:56 pm
Just to warp this up, the PCN was cancelled once a copy of the blue badge was sent in.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: cp8759 on February 05, 2024, 10:13:45 pm
I will PM you a link to put in the representation, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at it or not (obviously do not click on that link yourself as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on it, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

Dear Chelmsford City Council,

I would ask you to exercise discretion on this occasion for a first-time contravention. On the date in question I was accompanying my father to see partner and then we were all going to go out to a cafe, my father is elderly and has a blue badge which unfortunately I forgot to display. A copy of the blue badge is available at LINK

I hope you will be able to exercise discretion to cancel on this occasion and thank you for your consideration.

Yours faithfully,

Make the representation online via the council website and take a screenshot of the confirmation page.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 05, 2024, 12:27:53 pm
Also the sign isn't very clear. It's covered in green tree sap ? Could that be a form of mitigation, unclear signs?
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 05, 2024, 01:17:40 am
Ok I will do that tomorrow as it's very late now. I understand you can use blue badge on some resident permit holders bays and some not. There is no sign saying no disabled parking
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: cp8759 on February 04, 2024, 11:38:07 pm
OK so really a permit should have been on display and the contravention is open and shut.

In the circumstances, the best strategy is the one explained here (https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/city-of-edinburgh-02-parked-in-a-restricted-street-lochrin-buildings-gilmour-pla/msg7413/#msg7413), and the obvious evidence to use is the blue badge itself. If you can PM me a scan of both sides, I can set up a link with a click counter.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 11:24:10 pm
We arrived at approximately 9am and we left at around 10.30-11.00am
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: cp8759 on February 04, 2024, 11:00:18 pm
Let's start with the basics:

Traffic order: https://store.traffweb.app/essex/documents/parkmap/sched/Consolidation%20order%202019%20(Basildon)%20with%20Schedules.pdf
Map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/essex/documents/parkmap/msched/TQ675%20945_rv0_1.pdf

Council photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/FarYKhi.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/rLu5aAZ.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/JYmmFw0.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/myMOkTE.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/RUXMPUR.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/IHe1jyY.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/DCJhvT5.jpeg)

Firstly you need to forget about the fact that the PCN wasn't found on the car. Sometimes they get lost due to wind, sometimes local children run off with it, none of that matters as it was validly served. There's no point in settling for the discount, there is almost no doubt that we can get the charge back down to £35 but the objective here is to get it cancelled altogether.

The vehicle does appear to be in blatant contravention and it's right next to the sign, but above you said "She doesn't drive so no residents permit but iirc I was taking my father to see her and go to a cafe".

Firstly you don't need to have a car or be a driver to get some visitor permits, as everyone is allowed to have visitors whether they drive themselves or not. It might be an idea to get some visitor permits so you don't have this problem again, as far as I can see it's either £1 or £1.50 for an all day permit.

As for getting this PCN cancelled, there might be some good mitigation but there's also the question of whether a contravention occurred at all. At what time did you arrive, and after how long did you leave to go to the cafe?
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 10:11:35 pm
This is where the PCN should have been positioned during storm conditions and strong winds.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 09:42:41 pm
Hi I will request this. I'm presuming I have to appeal to do this ?
Also my partner is a resident but doesn't have a residents permit or parking for visitors as she doesn't drive. Also my father has been approved a blue badge and on the 18th December it was ordered for printing and delivery. He received this between 25th -30th because we used it on the 31st December, I just can't remember if it had arrived by the 27th but I guess we aren't allowed to park without displaying the blue badge even though it had been approved and printed ready for delivery. I did have my father with me , we were visiting my partner and private parking is available to the rear , I always park there but my father struggles to walk so I parked on the street in front of my partner's door. I guess none of this will be taken into consideration?
Finally , I've checked the weather for that day in that location and there was strong winds due to Storm Garrit , 31mph winds and on some areas 80-90mph and the civil enforcement officer attached the PCN so that more than half of it was not under the wiper blade. Total lack of common sense.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Hippocrates on February 04, 2024, 08:28:48 pm
We need to see the PCN to see if there are any flaws.  Ask them for it.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 08:20:20 pm
Just to add , I have now seen the photos of the PCN. Less than half the PCN is under the end of the wiper blade which is pathetic. All the PCN should be under the wiper blade and there was 50kmh ( 31mph) wind gusts that day so it was a windy day. 
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 07:15:40 pm
Perhaps a letter should accompany a PCN then because how on earth can I be responsible for the notice going missing. As for BB it must have come one or two days later as I used it with my father on the 31st and it had already been approved. BB takes months to get approved. I will go look at their website.
Thanks for your help. I will ask for the reduced rate which I wasn't given the chance to pay.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: H C Andersen on February 04, 2024, 04:28:57 pm
The South Essex Parking Partnership website - which very easy to use- shows the photos. A BB was not displayed.

Pl stop referring to the missing PCN in your posts, it isn't a defence but we can agree that you would mention it in any reps. You would also request that if the authority reject these representations then I would request that the discount is re-offered because although the photos show a PCN, this was not present when I returned to my car etc.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 04:20:27 pm
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bkfvFdvj1sUDr3Pb6
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 04:11:22 pm
This was outside my partner's property. She doesn't drive so no residents permit but iirc I was taking my father to see her and go to a cafe. He has a disabled blue badge which came through in the post between Christmas and New year so I can't remember if it had arrived and if I had put it on display on the dash. That's why I want to see photographic evidence of the PCN on the windscreen. There was definitely no PCN when I returned to the car.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 04:08:33 pm
Ok I will have up do this one by one. I can't upload from a Sharing site.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: H C Andersen on February 04, 2024, 03:44:00 pm

We need to see all pages pl.

Is there a reason why you were parked apparently in contravention?

Would you post the Partnership's photos pl.

Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 02:52:37 pm
Here is the front page of the PCN,  " notice to owner" see attached.

(https://i.imgur.com/iazzWKN.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/jvn0ENl.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/r4ApBL8.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ndXvEXd.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/b9Wxpyp.jpeg)
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Incandescent on February 04, 2024, 09:59:46 am
As per Neil B, please update your PCN so we can give full advice.

PCNs served to cars, (on the windscreen), commonly go astray, it's not a reason to cancel, I'm afraid. But your representations against the NtO need to point out that no PCN was found on the car, and therefore you have lost the opportunity to pay the discounted amount.
Title: Re: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Neil B on February 04, 2024, 04:13:59 am
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
Title: No PCN on windscreen
Post by: Seasider on February 04, 2024, 01:32:02 am
This time I've received a "Notice to owner" dated the 01/ 02/2024
It states : PCN ........ ( Insert number ) was served on 27/12/2023 by civil enforcement officer on the above vehicle " parked in a residents parking place or zone etc etc without displaying a permit or without payment of the parking charge.
Then the letter states: THE PENALTY CHARGE HAS NOT BEEN PAID".
Firstly does this mean a ticket was put on the windscreen ? Because there was no ticket on my windscreen.
Secondly , the letter I have received today ( 02/02/2024) is 37 days after the alleged offence. This is the first letter I have received and the first I have known about this alleged offence. I therefore not only did not know about this offence but I also haven't had the opportunity to pay the fine / charge at a reduced rate for obvious reasons.
Is this penalty charge notice now no longer valid due to the time frames?
Also I have be cer had an opportunity to pay the reduced charge as I didn't even know I had a PCN.
Please advise on my next steps.

Regards
Seasider