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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Hashim on February 02, 2024, 10:42:16 pm

Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: Incandescent on February 04, 2024, 07:32:44 pm
Quote
On top of this the order says you must park within the parking place, which is the whole bay, it doesn't say anything about parking within an individual parking space, so there's no contravention to begin with.
Brilliant, Sherlock !!
Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: cp8759 on February 04, 2024, 07:24:03 pm
As above, it is of critical that when the notice to owner is served, the lease company doesn't pay the penalty, or else all appeal rights are lost.

Is it a personal lease or is it leased through your employer? Do you know what process the lease company has in place? Ideally we want liability to be transferred to you so that you can cut them out and we can just deal directly with the council.

As for the contravention, I also think there's another argument: the map tile is here (https://store.traffweb.app/redbridge/documents/parkmap/msched/AU12_rv2_1.pdf) and it doesn't show the bay being divided into individual spaces, so the parking spaces are not supported by the traffic order and are unlawfully marked. On top of this the order says you must park within the parking place, which is the whole bay, it doesn't say anything about parking within an individual parking space, so there's no contravention to begin with.
Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: Incandescent on February 04, 2024, 07:21:31 pm
Quote from: Hashim on February 04, 2024, 01:36:29 pm
It's a leased vehicle so don't have the vc5.
You need to urgently contact the lease company to find out how they handle receipt of Notices to Owners, and PCNs for traffic offences. This is needed, because whilst you can submit an informal challenge to the PCN, these are invariably rejected. I you then do not pay-up, the council will send a Notice to Owner to the name and address on the V5. Many lease companies just pay the NtO and off-charge the lessee. As the Notice to Owner is for the full PCN penalty, you would end up paying double the amount you could pay by paying the discount.

Councils just luuurve lease car drivers as their PCNs almost always get paid !
Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: Hashim on February 04, 2024, 01:36:29 pm
It's a leased vehicle so don't have the vc5.
Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: cp8759 on February 03, 2024, 11:11:41 pm
Council photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/0DOnJFK.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/8wFd8xr.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/OfpcndM.jpeg)

(https://i.imgur.com/EA91G8l.jpeg)

Looks like here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/83WxFzsi8AG9jXX66

The roads markings will probably be considered adequate by most adjudicators, but the stronger point is that the requirement to park within the bay markings must be communicated, there's a whole raft of decisions on this point, see rows 350 to 360 here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pVrE76_RYY6bNmEpYGbsZkxtpfIeud_BT3SKfg7TzQM/edit?pli=1#gid=642784037&range=A350).

In this case article 22 of The Redbridge (Waiting, Loading, Stopping and Street Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2021 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uKVE_b9OznVtWolRI3t7qN7Cblx-AE1M/view) provides that:

24. Every vehicle left in a Parking Place or Parking Area in accordance with the provisions of this Order shall stand:
(1) where Carriageway markings are present so that its wheels are wholly within the limits of the Parking Place as so marked on the Carriageway; and
(2) so that no part of the vehicle shall unnecessarily obstruct the premises adjacent to the side of the Road on which the vehicle is standing.

However in the absence of signage, you would never know.

Are you the registered keeper and do you have the V5C?
Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: Hashim on February 03, 2024, 02:02:19 pm
Please see attached pcn.

(https://i.imgur.com/71oM2H4.jpeg)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Redbridge council
Post by: Incandescent on February 03, 2024, 01:26:06 am
So here is the location on GSV dated April 2022. There is clearly wear of the bay markings, but not all are totally worn away.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/6WXoSE3GUTV4ymDq9
However, we need to also see the PCN so we can check it for errors of legally mandated content that would render it void.
Title: Redbridge council
Post by: Hashim on February 02, 2024, 10:42:16 pm
Received a PCN stating that I was parked beyond the bay but as you can see from their evidence that the bays are hardly visible so that was my representation. Received a response stating that it was properly issued.

[attachment deleted by admin]