Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 07:18:42 pm

Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: DWMB2 on February 23, 2024, 02:31:01 pm
Good result, thanks for coming back to update us!
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on February 23, 2024, 01:32:07 pm
Hey guys.

Want to thank you once again.

I have received confirmation today that the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled.

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Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on February 01, 2024, 11:52:31 am
Thankyou!
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: DWMB2 on February 01, 2024, 11:34:07 am
Quote from: F82002 on February 01, 2024, 11:26:54 am
Is normal process to just sit and wait now, do nothing, but then chase on the 36th day if nothing received?
Essentially, yes. Keep an eye on your spam folder.

I recently had a charge from Smart Parking (thanks to dodgy ANPR) and didn't hear back on my appeal within 35 days, and had to chase by email. Then about a week later got a letter through the post confirming it was cancelled, so be prepared to chase if no response.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on February 01, 2024, 11:26:54 am
Hi again,

So confirmation has been sent that the appeal has been received and it will be adjudicated within 35 days.

Quote
Thank you for your recent communication.

We can confirm that your appeal has been received and that all action has been suspended pending adjudication. We will endeavour to respond to your appeal within 35 days.

If your appeal has been received within 28 days of issue of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) and your appeal is unsuccessful, the PCN will revert to the amount outstanding at the point of appeal and the payment terms will be extended.

Is normal process to just sit and wait now, do nothing, but then chase on the 36th day if nothing received?

Thanks again
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: DWMB2 on January 29, 2024, 08:55:21 pm
Only the fields marked with an asterisk* are required, so you can leave the phone number one blank.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: b789 on January 29, 2024, 08:31:21 pm
Just enter your details. It is the content of the appeal box that counts here. You must specify that you are appealing as the keeper.

If you don't want to give them your phone number (I wouldn't) then just put 0333-8888888 which will redirect them to a message telling them to contact you by email.

You want a record of any interaction with these scammers. A phone call is not worth the paper it is written on.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:29:22 pm
I'll lodge the appeal directly in this case then.

Final question and then I will stop asking anymore :-)

On the appeal page they display this, as attached.

It doesn't mention the driver's name etc, just personal details for contact.

Does it look ok to enter the keeper's details here?



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Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: DWMB2 on January 29, 2024, 08:22:46 pm
Quote from: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:16:06 pm
Does that make contacting the land owner less beneficial?
You won't know until you try, and doing so costs nothing.

Just be very careful not to tell them who was driving, either. I've seen cases where people have contacted the landowner, revealing who was driving in the process, only for said landowner to simply forward said correspondence to the parking company, revealing the driver, and ruining what would have been a successful appeal.

As much as I'm usually in favour of contacting the landowners as 'Plan A', Smart Parking very often cancel without a fuss with the template appeal I suggested above... Just don't miss any deadlines.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: b789 on January 29, 2024, 08:21:18 pm
Quote from: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:16:06 pm
Interestingly, the car park is owned by a local solicitors chain - Gamlins Law.

Does that make contacting the land owner less beneficial?
Not at all. Were you there as a patron of the business? If they are the firm who contracted the PPC, they should be able to tell their agent to cancel it.

Complain about the fact that it is likely to be harmful to their business if an unregulated private parking company of ex-clampers is giving out speculative invoices for an alleged breach of a contract when you are a patron of their company.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:16:06 pm
Interestingly, the car park is owned by a local solicitors chain - Gamlins Law.

Does that make contacting the land owner less beneficial?

Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: b789 on January 29, 2024, 08:08:46 pm
Quote from: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:07:44 pm
Ok - thanks again :-)

I'll lodge the appeal now.
What about Plan A?
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:07:44 pm
Ok - thanks again :-)

I'll lodge the appeal now.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: DWMB2 on January 29, 2024, 08:03:38 pm
Quote from: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:00:24 pm
@b789 - the parking location is not an NHS site, will that matter or change the response/appeal?
No - the reason b789 was mentioning it is that if you're seeking to contact the landowner, the approach is different with hospitals, as the PALS service exists.

If you use the template appeal I suggested, they'll very likely cancel.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 08:00:24 pm
Fantastic guys.

@DWMB2 - yes the V5 has my name and current address.

@b789 - the parking location is not an NHS site, will that matter or change the response/appeal?
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: b789 on January 29, 2024, 07:53:59 pm
Whatever you do, do not identify the drivers details. The NtK (PCN) has been issued to the registered keeper (RK), In law, the "driver" and the "keeper" are two separate entities.

(Not so) Smart Parking do not use PoFA and so cannot hold the keeper liable. Only the driver can be held liable and they have no idea who the driver is. Even if they had a high resolution picture of the driver, they still would not know the identity as there is no magical database the can use to try and compare a photo to with details. Besides that, they are not allowed to forensically try and identify someone from any such image. Only the police or an "authority" can do that and then only under criminal law. This is a simple civil law case.

One other thing about (not so) Smart Parking is that if this is for parking in an NHS Trust location such as a hospital, they have no contract to issue claims in their own name. This will go nowhere, especially if you follow the advice.

The first thing you must do is try Plan A, which is contact the landowner (if it is an NHS Trust site then contact PALS) and complain and ask them to get this cancelled. Following this, you move on to Plan B, which is an appeal to (not so) Smart Parking.

Under no circumstance identify the driver. No "I parked..." or "I drove..." etc. You are only appealing as the keeper of the vehicle. Do not select any options on their website that asks if you are appealing as the driver.

Use the following in your appeal:

Quote
This is an appeal by the registered keeper - No driver details will be given. Please do NOT try the usual Group Nexus Trick of asking for driver details in order to get around the fact your NTK does not comply with POFA. As there is no keeper liability then liability cannot flow from the driver to the keeper and thus is an automatic win at POPLA. Therefore, please cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code at which point you will auto withdraw.

Whilst (not so) Smart Parking will probably reject the appeal, not before trying to tell you that you must identify the driver (which you will not) otherwise they will have no option to "presume" that you were driving, just ignore that and move on to the POPLA appeal where you will win this.
Title: Re: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: DWMB2 on January 29, 2024, 07:52:05 pm
Can you confirm that you are the registered keeper (that is, that you have in your possession the car's V5C bearing your name and current address)?

If so, an appeal as the keeper along the lines of the below should see them off:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. I note from your correspondence that you are not seeking to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have chosen not to issue a Notice to Keeper in accordance with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not respond within 35 days, chase them.
Title: Smart Parking PCN - Morfa Hall, Rhyl - Overstay
Post by: F82002 on January 29, 2024, 07:18:42 pm
Hi all,

Nothing has been done with this yet - completely vanilla at this stage, ie, no appeal or contact made.

A letter has arrived with a Smart Parking PCN for a suggested overstay of approximately 40 minutes.

The overstay is likely to do with the driver appointment being delayed and extended.

The "contravention" date was 16/12/2023 and the date issued is 16/01/2024.

There are no photos of the signs that can be posted here, and streetview is a couple of years outdated, but I can add them here if needed?

Obviously looking for assistance for how the keeper should respond.



Thanks
F82002





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