Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Organiser on January 20, 2024, 12:43:44 am
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Hold fire we need to see them some are not yet out of time as they have not been registered. What you do need be doing is filing out of times for the ones you paid and perhaps you can get your money back
But i for one advise on the documents i can see not on transcripts or summaries
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So focus on process.
You have paid what's been demanded to date.
Check with DART what other charges are coming your way, let's have a full picture.
What you need to do is submit what's known as 'Out of time' applications for every PCN which you've not paid because these would stop enforcement temporarily and buy time so we can try and unravel these issues.
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OP, you're leading us in a direction of your choosing, not up north but possibly garden path.
No garden path involved only roads leading north to Manchester
What was the intervening event between the last time you paid successfully and the first time you didn't?
The account was updated when I changed the vehicle but as I've said on my reply to Spaceman my mistake is obviously when I changed the original registration to my personal registration and didn't update the account
You clearly were not 'up north for the next 9/10 months' you made 2 crossings within a month!
I made two crossings for a weekend of work meetings/conference.
I'm putting forward the above as a plausible possibility but only you can check your account. So far you've not made one crossing for which you've paid since Apr 2023.
I am not from Great Britain and am unfamiliar with the process. I accept fault for the August charges but am simply looking for advice/guidance as to whether I have grounds for dispute due to not living at the address when the charges were delivered. The account is now fully up to date but no crossings have been made yet.
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You haven't said whether you specifically updated your Dart account with the new details (incl VRM) when you replaced your vehicle on 20 April 2023
Did you?
The Dart account was updated on the day it was purchased as I had to make a crossing after collecting from the dealer. I did however put my own personal registration on the vehicle at the end of May but didn't update the registration on the Dart account. So I assume that will be why I have received the charges for June & July. My mistake.
Do I still have any grounds for dispute when, a) I wasn't living at the address when the charges were delivered and b) no PCN was ever received for June & July?
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Spot on IMO.
OP, you're leading us in a direction of your choosing, not up north but possibly garden path.
Pl forget about any changes in Ts and Cs on which you want us to focus and look at your timeline again.
What was the intervening event between the last time you paid successfully and the first time you didn't?
Made multiple crossings in February & March [2024] and all payments taken automatically.
20 April 2023 - I replace my car with a newer model and register it to the accommodation my employer has provided..
28 June 2023 - made 1 crossing. Didn't check my account...
...the mail contains the following -
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 28 June,
= you did not register the car as required/attach to your account etc. etc.
You need to look behind what you did in April 2023.
But this is only half the problem. You also posted:
21 July 2023 - received an email to say changeover and new t&c's would come into force on 28 July 2023. I didn't update my details or revalidate my card as I was up north for the next 9/10 months.
18 August 2023 - made 1 crossing south for work.
21 August 2023 - made 1 crossing back up north.
You clearly were not 'up north for the next 9/10 months' you made 2 crossings within a month!
So, what actually happened on 20 April and why didn't your auto account work(you've said you had funds).
I'm putting forward the above as a plausible possibility but only you can check your account. So far you've not made one crossing for which you've paid since Apr 2023.
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You haven't said whether you specifically updated your Dart account with the new details (incl VRM) when you replaced your vehicle on 20 April 2023
Did you?
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Yes the account always had more than sufficient funds. I have bank statements that show previous successful payments and show sufficient funds for all dates.
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did your account always have sufficient funds to cover the crossings and can you evidence this ( not to us but to dart charge
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I have not received PCN's for the first 3. The list I posted is everything that was in the pile of mail that arrived when I wasn't living there.
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16 January 2024 - the mail contains the following -
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 28 June,
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 14 July,
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 18 August,
1 PCN and 1 Charge certificate for 21 August.
So where are the PCNs for the first three dates ? They would have been sent to the same address.
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Hoping for some guidance, this is a complicated one (in my head anyway).
I'm not from England but am currently here on a 3 year fixed term contract and live in accommodation provided by my employer.
Here's a timeline of events -
February 2023 - created a Dart pay as you go account.
Made multiple crossings in February & March and all payments taken automatically.
20 April 2023 - I replace my car with a newer model and register it to the accommodation my employer has provided as I'm here for 3 years.
30 April 2023 - received an email from Dart to say they were changing service provider and changing t&c's sometime between June & August 2023 and that I would be notified of the exact date prior to changeover. After changeover I would need to change my password and revalidate my payment card.
28 June 2023 - made 1 crossing. Didn't check my account to confirm the crossing had been paid for as have had no previous issues.
14 July 2023 - made 1 crossing north as my employer temporarily posts me to a different location in the north of England with an expected return back down south in April/May 2024. Again did not check my account to confirm payment as no previous issues.
21 July 2023 - received an email to say changeover and new t&c's would come into force on 28 July 2023. I didn't update my details or revalidate my card as I was up north for the next 9/10 months.
18 August 2023 - made 1 crossing south for work.
21 August 2023 - made 1 crossing back up north.
15 January 2024 - my work in the north of England is complete and return that evening to my original accommodation in the south to be greeted by a ridiculous amount of mail about Dart charges. I'm tired from the long drive and it's late so go straight to bed. (I have not been back in this accommodation since I left on 14 July 2023).
16 January 2024 - the mail contains the following -
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 28 June,
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 14 July,
1 charge certificate and 1 order of recovery for 18 August,
1 PCN and 1 Charge certificate for 21 August.
Meanwhile I am contacted by Bristow and Sutor requesting payment (for 28 June & 14 July) to avoid a visit from enforcement officers. As I still haven't processed everything in my brain yet I make the payment.
So how do I sort out this complicated situation?
Obviously I am 'Out of time'.
I was living up in north of England (I have proof of this) when these were delivered to my original accommodation.
My pay as you go account was perfectly valid when the June/July crossings were made (the changeover hadn't happened) so I don't think I should have any penalties for those in the first place, also bearing in mind I never received a PCN for either of them and have now paid Bristow & Sutor a large sum of money.
I completely forgot to revalidate my card to allow automatic payment for the 2 August crossings so accept I am at fault for those but as I haven't received a PCN for the first one and that I wasn't staying at the address when they were delivered do I have a case?
My car is the only thing I have registered at the original address so wouldn't be expecting any mail (besides the V5 when I registered it) therefore no need to have my mail redirected up north for a few months.
Any advice/guidance/forms to fill in/who to contact is greatly appreciated.