Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: sprct on June 30, 2023, 11:15:31 am

Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on July 18, 2023, 04:40:53 pm
Thanks - will post as soon as I receive anything.
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: cp8759 on July 17, 2023, 09:14:50 pm
That's the smoking gun we needed, now we just need to wait for the rejection from the council.
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on July 17, 2023, 01:01:36 pm
Just received this reply (https://1drv.ms/i/s!Av3CGbzWAsM6tBFOvu2ThLz2bb33?e=gq404a) from the leasing company:

Quote
Good Afternoon,

Thank you for your email.

No, we haven’t received confirmation from Brent they have transferred liability of this fine.

Kind regards

Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on July 14, 2023, 05:08:44 pm
Have done so, thank you once again
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: cp8759 on July 14, 2023, 01:04:30 pm
This is like pulling teeth, but it is what it is, you'll have to go back to them:

Dear hire company,

Have you ever received any correspondence from Brent confirming that liability has been transferred to me?

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on July 14, 2023, 10:32:31 am
Good morning - I finally received a response from the hire company sharing correspondence received from Brent:

Quote
Good Morning,

Thank you for your email.

Please see attached letter received from London Borough of Brent, I sent a letter of authorisation to Brent for you to be able to appeal this fine on the 28th June.

Kind regards


This is the letter attached to the email (https://1drv.ms/i/s!Av3CGbzWAsM6tA3ALTfnLqfcQujF?e=VSD22m)


I did not "contest the PCN" as the letter from Brent to the hire company suggests, this was my email to Brent in April chasing the PCN, which had not arrived at the time:

Quote
Dear team,

My leasing company contacted me stating that they had transferred liability of a PCN originally  issued to them. I have not yet received the reissued PCN. Could you let me know when I will receive it by post or alternatively please sent me a copy of the PCN by email.

Thank you for your help.

Kind regards,
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on July 11, 2023, 11:21:05 am
Will do, thank you.
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: cp8759 on July 05, 2023, 07:14:47 pm
In the meantime I'd keep chasing up the hire company.
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on July 05, 2023, 04:29:36 pm
Representation sent - thanks again for the support and fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on June 30, 2023, 10:12:48 pm
Thanks for your advice - I'll contact them again and see what they respond. Hopefully I'll get an answer before 5th July.
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: cp8759 on June 30, 2023, 04:26:55 pm
I'm afraid you'll have to go back to them:


Dear Hire company,

I appreciate what you are saying, however I would like to ask you to specifically check / confirm whether any correspondence was received in this particular case. Based on legal advice I have received, I need this information in order to pursue this appeal so I need positive confirmation of whether any further correspondence has or has not been received by yourselves.

Please could you check and get back to me?

Yours faithfully,
Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: sprct on June 30, 2023, 12:50:29 pm
Thank you cp8759. I received the following from the lease company:

Quote
Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

The letters to request a transfer of liability are sent automatically and in most circumstances no response is received to confirm this has taken place. Generally a response is only received in the instance that the transfer request has failed or was incomplete. We do not have control over how long an authority takes to reissue a fine unfortunately.

Should you have not received the reissued fine I would recommend contacting London Borough of Brent to discuss this further with them. If once received you ignore the fine and not pay it the company will receive an escalation notice and we will pay the fine and recharge the cost to you to avoid any further escalation or legal proceedings.

Title: Re: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestria
Post by: cp8759 on June 30, 2023, 11:58:17 am
These are:

The Brent (Prescribed Routes) (Pedestrian & Cycle Zone) (No. 24) Traffic Order 2022 (http://"https://bit.ly/3WwqGKF")
The Brent (Prescribed Routes) (Pedestrian & Cycle Zone) (No. 24, 2022) (Amendment No. 1) Order 2022 (http://"https://bit.ly/42d9URP")

I can't see any flaws with the order, but give other a chance to comment.

The PCN includes this wording which is arguably confusing:

(https://i.imgur.com/VEQRXpz.png)

However the strongest argument will be around the transfer of liability, so write to the hire company as follows:

Dear Hire Company,

I understand you requested the London Borough of Brent to transfer liability to me for PCN BT19040867.

I would like to request the following information: after you wrote to the council to transfer liability, did you receive any further correspondence from the council about this PCN? If so, please could you forward me a copy?

Yours faithfully,


To preserve the discount you need to make representations by 5 July, so if the hire company doesn't respond by then, use this draft:


Dear London Borough of Brent,

In the first instance I bring a collateral challenge against PCN BT19040867 owing to the confusing wording about the 28 day period I have to pay the penalty. The PCN states that I must pay before the end of 28 days starting with the date of the notice, but it is then stated in brackets that the date of service is two working days after the date of the notice. It is therefore unclear whether the 28 day period starts with the date of the notice, or the date of service of the notice.

In any event I dispute liability because I do not own and have never owned the vehicle concerned, and finally the PCN has been issued out of time.

For each of the above reasons, the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

If you do hear back from the hire company, let us know right away please.
Title: Brent Code 53 Slough Lane J/W Old Kenton Lane, Failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zo
Post by: sprct on June 30, 2023, 11:15:31 am
PCN number BT19040867
VRM FP71RYF

The photos from the Brent portal and the PCN itself are here: Photos (https://1drv.ms/f/s!Av3CGbzWAsM6sh0Ev00w-640cF0t?e=gcUwYV)

The streetview of the sign is here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5837134,-0.2666016,3a,75y,185.82h,82.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s24qy4qvqScEQGj70t215vQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

The warning sign may be viewed here (https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5841341,-0.2658717,3a,75y,222.01h,76.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP72KSVm87XMfl8IKYEvksw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192)

Thank you in advance to cp8759 who has kindly agreed to assist