Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: brokenhelix on January 15, 2024, 11:01:23 pm

Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Hippocrates on March 05, 2024, 01:43:50 pm
Well I guess the OP has settled without making representations?
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Hippocrates on March 04, 2024, 10:03:18 pm
This is all about signage, evidence and the wording in my view.
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: philou on March 04, 2024, 09:36:05 pm
1.  You have not shown us all the PCN.

2.  The problem with citing other cases is that you do not know exactly what was argued and how.

philou is giving it a go.

Correct! I am. Signage was definitely inadequate in my view as well as, I also missed out the blue signage on the RHS of the road. I concur that the layout of Leahurst has been changed multiple times in the last 5 years and it's currently more confusing than ever!

Hearing is towards the end of this month!
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Hippocrates on March 03, 2024, 12:42:46 pm
Well, some perhaps novel points to be raised re the wording. "Acts as a Notice to Owner".
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Hippocrates on February 23, 2024, 01:09:12 pm
1.  You have not shown us all the PCN.

2.  The problem with citing other cases is that you do not know exactly what was argued and how.

philou is giving it a go.
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: brokenhelix on January 16, 2024, 10:54:19 am
Thank you for the input.

At 50/50, I might give it a miss.  Can't really afford the higher fines and I've already spent about a week looking at endless legislation and adjudications.

This is a fairly new alteration to the site.

There was a width restriction with gate in the middle.

They put planters in the width restrictions at first (during COVID).

Then opened the gate in the middle with a camera.

Recently they changed it again the to raised crossing point.

It's all quite sneaky, as you go around that corner and there is another one.  The road ahead of the bend is one way and the only other turn off has a school street.

Entirely possible to get several fines in quick succession.
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Pastmybest on January 16, 2024, 08:59:45 am
You can act on here behalf but would need written authority. I am not so sure of your chances at the end of the day the restriction signs are clear, there might be a case to be made re confusion with the 7.5 tonne signs if argued well

The wording is fine and reflects the poor drafting of the regulations

The address issue has been won as i recall only once but has lost on a few occasions so again would need arguing well to have a chance

IMO chances are 50/50 at best 
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: brokenhelix on January 16, 2024, 01:17:08 am
Thank you.

Just one more question.  Does the owner have to attend the appeal to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators, or can a representative make the case (ie me, the driver of my wife's car)?

Because, if it's her, I'm guessing she'd rather just pay the fine.  Whereas I have more time and fight :)
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Incandescent on January 15, 2024, 11:57:24 pm
Quote
Is there a chance that the wording I mentioned and the lack of a postal address for payment (I was reading something about that) may make it invalid too?

Well, if you're going to London Tribunals you always use all your ammunition, so include it. An adjudicator will only decide on what is in front of him.
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: brokenhelix on January 15, 2024, 11:43:30 pm
Thank you for the reply.  Greatly appreciated.

I'm more than happy to try my best not to give them any money, because otherwise they're simply going to continue enforcing a restriction which I think is unfair and ineffective at preventing the traffic it is supposed to deter.

I also have another one from Christmas eve, at the same section, in the dark.

Unfortunately, the notice for that arrived 3 days after going through it again.  I made representations asking for leniency, as we haven't had any warnings or pcns before, but I suspect the reply that's on the way for that one is a rejection.

Is there a chance that the wording I mentioned and the lack of a postal address for payment (I was reading something about that) may make it invalid too?
Title: Re: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: Incandescent on January 15, 2024, 11:14:43 pm
Totally inadequate signage. The advance warning is not a traffic sign and is anyway positioned badly, and there is no way out of the trap if you even see the single sign. I would have no hesitation in taking this to London Tribunals, but it's your money, because if you go to LT, the discount option is lost.
Title: Lewisham, 52m, Leahurst Road - Westbound
Post by: brokenhelix on January 15, 2024, 11:01:23 pm
Hi all.

I got a PCN for going past a 'No Motor Vehicles' sign.  Genuinely never saw the sign, but it's there...

There is just one sign on the left.  There is a warning sign mounted to a lamppost further up the road, which is on the right hand sign of the road.  There is no other relevant signage I could find or diversion routes, although the only way to avoid it is to turn around or turn right into Longhurst Road (the road on the left is a Cul de Sac)

I can see the images the council has supplied, but the video would not load, so I haven't been able to view it.

The rear of the PCN (page 2) has a strangely worded sentence that I'm unclear about "If you fail to pay the Penalty Charge Notice or make representations before the end of 28 days beginning with the date this notice was served an increase charge of  notice an increased charge of £195.00  may be payable".

It looks like they have tried to correct something but ended up repeating themselves.


PCN Page 1:

(https://i.ibb.co/d7WtRhn/1000009077-01.jpg)


PCN Page 2:

(https://i.ibb.co/s9yLwXd/1000009074-01.jpg)


View 1:

(https://i.ibb.co/MSssqMj/leahurst-near2.jpg)


View 2:

(https://i.ibb.co/2M3GJMh/leahurst-near1.jpg)


View 3:

(https://i.ibb.co/5BhBj7f/leahurst-far2.jpg)


View 4:

(https://i.ibb.co/kycFJK2/leahurst-far1.jpg)


Warning Sign:

(https://i.ibb.co/r7NPq2M/leahurst-warning-rhs.jpg)


Rear View (double signs):

(https://i.ibb.co/nPgBncV/leahurst-rear-view.jpg)


If there is anything else I can provide, please let me know and many thanks for your time!