Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: henz on January 14, 2024, 01:23:24 pm
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The TWOC ground limits to theft.
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Morning all.
I'm of a slightly different view to Incandescent. The test is at the point of entry, and there was space for your father's car then assuming he was looking to bend slightly to the right and reach the space at a bit of an angle rather than head across to pull up directly behind the red car. Indeed it's the space the black car decided to zoom forward and pinch from under his nose as that driver suddenly realised he'd exercised poor judgement and was about to get trapped in the box himself!
At about 3 to 4 seconds into the video, you can see your father's car begin to turn slightly to the right as if about to coast into that space, only to have to abort when the black car comes from behind and into your father's peripheral vision. In my view, it's the other driver which entered the box when the exit was not clear, rather than your father.
Another way of potentially arguing it, if your father was aiming for that space, is that he stopped not due to stationary vehicles but due to that moving black car cutting him up.
If you pause the video at about 7 seconds in, and pretend that the black car did not cross the box, I think it's hard to say that there wasn't space for your father's car, or indeed that he would not likely have simply manoeuvred his car a little more to the right to avoid the rear of his car sticking out into the box junction.
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The offence occurs on entry, and here there was a space on the other side, although I do have my doubts that your father's rather large vehicle would have fitted into it. In fact your father stopped quite short of the red car, thus intruding into the box at the rear. I'm not sure whether the sneaky little black car pinched the space, because your father made no move towards that space.
I have to say, I don't think this is a guaranteed win at all as I don't think your father's car would have been able to clear the box even if he'd moved further forward than he did, but see what the others say.
I think he does slowly and eventually makes it across and into the space but the video evidence gets cut short, at least that is what he remembers.
Thanks for your response I will also be waiting for others and @MrChips to respond.
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The offence occurs on entry, and here there was a space on the other side, although I do have my doubts that your father's rather large vehicle would have fitted into it. In fact your father stopped quite short of the red car, thus intruding into the box at the rear. I'm not sure whether the sneaky little black car pinched the space, because your father made no move towards that space.
I have to say, I don't think this is a guaranteed win at all as I don't think your father's car would have been able to clear the box even if he'd moved further forward than he did, but see what the others say.
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Hi there, please see PCN attached and Google SV location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/FgVNcAH4ksJkUstB8
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Asa usual, have a read of
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
abd post up all sides of the PCN (only redact name & address - leave everything else in),
a GSV link to location,
and obtain and post up the video (it's the only evidence}'
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Hey all,
I saw the same offense take place from the other post and would like to add that I had the same PCN issued to me on the 29th June 2023 and failed to win my appeal via a London Tribunals adjudicator in Nov of 2023. If details are requested for this I am happy to provide but the main reason why I was denied my appeal is because I entered the box junction onto stationary vehicles (even though there was plenty of room in front of the stationary vehicle).
Anyways I am here because we have again (my Dad this time) been caught by the same camera and after finding and reading this post this time around I would love to hear from you guys on what you think and if there are grounds for me to appeal here. Please find attached video evidence.
The car to the right in the other lane also cuts in a little where space was present. The way I see it is there is space for the car to exit on the other end but it just took a couple secs of stopping in between that triggered the happy snapping camera. What the footage does not capture is the space being filled and box junction being cleared before the crossing traffic starts moving. Also, does my video also start late where I'm just inside the box junction therefore the argument that @cp87699 made applies?
Would love to hear from you guys ASAP as letter came in only yesterday.
Thanks
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