Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: paulswhitt on January 10, 2024, 08:08:26 am

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on October 16, 2024, 12:34:17 am
Of course they wouldn’t take it all the way to a hearing as they’d be spanked in court. They were hoping you were low-nagging fruit on the gullible tree and would fold when litigation started.

VCS should have sent you a copy of the N279 Discontinuation Notice. By failing to do so, they have acted unreasonably.

Under CPR Part 38.3(1), the claimant must serve the Notice of Discontinuance on the defendant, but if this is not done, it could be seen as unreasonable behaviour. The defendant may then argue under CPR 27.14(2)(g) that the claimant's failure to notify the discontinuance caused unnecessary time, effort, or costs to be incurred. This should open the door for the court to order costs against the claimant, even in a small claims case, where costs are usually limited.

If the claimant's failure to serve the notice resulted in you unnecessarily preparing for a case that has been discontinued, you can apply to the court to seek costs for wasted preparation time, citing the claimant's unreasonable conduct.

You should also point out that the ‘White Book’ supports claims for costs under r.27.14(2)(g) when a party has acted unreasonably, as in the case of a claimant not serving an N279 on the defendant, which could fall under that definition if it leads to wasted resources.

Here is a suggested letter you should email to the court. Edit the number of hours you actually spent on preparing the letter and your WS:

Quote
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, Postcode]
[Email Address]
[Phone Number]

[Date]

The Court Manager
Swindon County Court
The Law Courts
Islington Street
Swindon
SN1 2HG

Claim No.: [Your Case Number]
Claimant: Vehicle Control Services Ltd (VCS)
Defendant: [Your Name]

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: Claimant’s Failure to Serve Notice of Discontinuance and Application for Costs

I write in relation to the above-referenced case, where I have recently been informed that the claimant, Vehicle Control Services Ltd (VCS), filed a Notice of Discontinuance (N279) on 17th September 2024. However, the claimant failed to serve the notice on me as required under CPR 38.3(1).

As noted in my previous letter to the court dated 6th October 2024, the claimant had not complied with the court's case management order requiring them to file and serve documents by 24th September 2024. At that time, I was unaware that the claimant had already discontinued the claim. This failure to notify me of the discontinuance was not an oversight; the claimant was fully aware that their claim was vexatious and without standing. Their failure to serve the N279 Notice further underscores their intent to cause inconvenience and additional costs.

It is well known that this claimant, VCS, engages in vexatious bulk litigation, regularly discontinuing claims when it becomes apparent that the defendant will not capitulate. This has resulted in [X] hours of my personal time being wasted on preparing the 6th October letter and a witness statement. The claimant’s conduct clearly falls within unreasonable behaviour under CPR 27.14(2)(g), and I respectfully request that the court award costs against the claimant for the time and expense I incurred due to their failure to properly notify me of the discontinuance.

I respectfully request that the court:

1. Award costs for the time and effort I spent due to the claimant’s unreasonable behaviour.
2. Consider sanctions or remedies against the claimant for their conduct, particularly given their history of bulk litigation abuse.

Attached to this letter is a copy of my previous letter dated 6th October 2024 and a breakdown of the costs I have incurred.

Thank you for your attention to this matter, and I look forward to your response.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Full Name]
Defendant

Attachments:
1. Copy of the 6th October 2024 letter.
2. Breakdown of costs incurred.


Attach a copy of the 6th October letter to the court (confirm date it was actually sent)

Also attach a copy of the below breakdown of costs (adjust number of hours @ £19/hour to your situation):

Quote
Breakdown of Costs Incurred Due to Claimant’s Failure to Serve Notice of Discontinuance

1. Time spent preparing a letter to the court (6th October 2024):

2 hours @ £19 per hour (LiP rate) = £38

2. Time spent preparing witness statement (pre and post discontinuance):

2 hours @ £19 per hour (LiP rate) = £38

3. Postage and printing costs (for sending the letter and any related documents):

£5

4. Additional time spent following up with the court after the discontinuance (due to not receiving N279):

1 hour @ £19 per hour (LiP rate) = £19



Total Costs Claimed: £100



Legal References Supporting this Application:

1. CPR 27.14(2)(g):

This rule allows the court to award costs in small claims where a party has acted unreasonably. The claimant’s failure to serve the Notice of Discontinuance and their known history of vexatious litigation clearly constitutes unreasonable behaviour.

2. CPR 38.3(1):

This rule requires the claimant to serve the N279 Notice of Discontinuance on the defendant. The claimant’s failure to do so breached their procedural obligations.

3. CPR 1.1 – Overriding Objective:

The claimant’s failure to comply with the rules of service undermines the Overriding Objective, which requires cases to be dealt with justly and fairly. Their failure to notify me of the discontinuance wasted my time and caused unnecessary work.

4. Relevant case law – Vexatious claims:

In ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, the court noted that claimants using bulk litigation tactics must ensure fairness and compliance with procedural rules. The claimant's failure to serve the N279 notice has caused unnecessary time and costs, warranting an award of costs against them.

5. LiP rate:

The Litigant in Person (LiP) hourly rate of £19 per hour applies to the time spent by a defendant representing themselves. This should be applied to the time I spent preparing documents and correspondence as a result of the claimant's unreasonable conduct.


Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on October 15, 2024, 07:24:09 pm
Hi,

It would appear VCS decided it wasn't worth the court fees. I just received this from the small claims court.

"Good afternoon,

I can confirm that the Claimant has filed a Notice of Discontinuance with the court on 17 September 2024, the hearing has been vacated and the claim will not go ahead. A notice should have been sent to you by the Claimant."

It would appear VCS are just hot air as suspected. No surprise their communication never reached me.

Very appreciative off all of your help and support.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on October 06, 2024, 11:11:53 am
No idea why you redacted the claimants details. Not that we don’t know who that is, but you failed to redact the VRM.

The PoC become useful if the claim is not struck out when you need to prepare your WS.

I suggest you start to prepare your WS now, just in case. Your WS is your version of events. Unlike the defence, it is written in the first person.

Show us what you propose to send and we will be able to critique it and provide improvements and additions, if anything has not been considered.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on October 06, 2024, 10:56:48 am
Hi,

Thank you for your advice, I have sent the letter you provided to the court.

Please find a link to the PoC:

https://imgur.com/a/EX4fxn5

Every correspondence I received from VCS has been at least 10 days after the date on the letter. I assumed this would be the case again.



Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on October 06, 2024, 01:40:41 am
Why have not yet seen the PoC of the original claim? We will require sight of the PoC before we can assist with the WS.

In the meantime, you must send the following to the court asking for a PDF attachment in an email to swindon.cty.enq@justice.gov.uk and mark it as URGENT and include the claim number in the subject:

Quote
The Court Manager
Swindon County Court
The Law Courts
Islington Street
Swindon
SN1 2HG

[Date]

Re: Case Number [Your Case Number] – [Claimant’s Name] v [Your Name]


Dear Sir/Madam,

I write with regard to the above-referenced claim, which has been allocated to the small claims track, with a hearing listed for 6th November 2024.

On 19th August 2024, District Judge Gorman ordered that the claimant’s documents be filed and served by 24th September 2024. This deadline has now passed by more than 10 days, and to date, I have not received any documents from the claimant, nor have they been filed with the court, as far as I am aware.

In light of the claimant’s failure to comply with the court's case management directions, I respectfully request that the court strike out the claim pursuant to Civil Procedure Rules 3.4. This is on the grounds that the claimant has failed to comply with an order of the court, causing unnecessary delay and prejudice to my ability to properly prepare my case.

Further, I believe that the claimant’s conduct is contrary to the overriding objective as set out in CPR 1.1, which requires the court to deal with cases justly, expeditiously, and proportionately, ensuring that both parties are on an equal footing. The claimant’s failure to engage with the process in a timely manner undermines these principles, and I submit that striking out the claim is an appropriate remedy in these circumstances.

In the alternative, should the court be minded to allow the claimant additional time, I respectfully request that an “unless” order be made, granting the claimant a final deadline to submit their documents. Additionally, I request that I be given 14 days from the claimant’s new deadline to submit my own witness statement in order to have a fair opportunity to respond to their case, in line with the overriding objective.

I trust the court will take into account the procedural failings of the claimant, and I await your further directions.

Thank you for your consideration of this matter.

Yours faithfully,

[Your Name]
Defendant

Why have you waited so long past their deadline to remind us about this?
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on October 05, 2024, 06:24:20 pm
Thank you as always for your advice.

I still have not received the documents from the claimant, which were meant to have been delivered by 4pm on 24th September.

what would you suggest I do as it's preventing me from starting my witness statement?

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on September 13, 2024, 01:50:57 pm
You will note that your WS must be submitted no later than 14 days before the trial date, 6th November. So, you have until Wednesday 23rd October to submit a WS. You can start preparing it now but do not submit anything until we've seen it and certainly don't submit it early. I would suggest you submit it on the last possible day.

For an idea on how to prepare the WS, I have just provided one today you can look at in this thread:

https://www.ftla.uk/private-parking-tickets/received-two-pcns-from-april-2023-with-legal-and-court-fees-on-top-but-1256/

VCS have been instructed to provide their WS by 24th September, so you will have almost a month to review theirs and rebut anything in theirs before you have to submit your.

Ignore the letter from VCS. It is just template rubbish and is meant to scare you into paying them.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on September 13, 2024, 01:35:20 pm
Hi,

It's been a while since my last update.

I have now received my notice of allocation to a small claims track hearing. Alongside this, I received a letter from VCS attempting to settle and threatening me with additional costs for solicitors.

https://imgur.com/a/EX4fxn5

Any advice in terms of how to proceed next on both accounts would be appreciated.

thanks
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: DWMB2 on May 21, 2024, 01:21:12 pm
Can you share the particulars of claim? The defence is required to address each of the points made in the particulars. It's worth us checking this has been done.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 01:02:30 pm
I was thinking the hearing would be where I make my full defence. This is the same defence I have used throughout the process so far.

I wasn't the driver so my answer would be 'no'.

Hypothetically, what if the judge then asked you “in that case, who was driving?”.

Then as long as you are aware that perjury is a criminal offence you have nothing to worry about. If you, the keeper, were not driving, then your defence will stand and the burden of proof is on VCS to evidence otherwise. They cannot simply assume or infer that you were the driver. They have no other evidence they can use.

Without reading back, has this already been allocated to a court local to you? If so, which court? Some circuits are better than others in the judge bingo game. However, as you were not the driver, you cannot be liable and the judge should dismiss the claim. You should also be aware that you can claim some limited costs such as transport and parking plus up to £95 for loss of earnings on the day of the hearing. If you can persuade the judge that the claimant has acted unreasonably by vexatiously pursuing the claim when they knew they had no right to peruse you as the keeper and no evidence to prove you were the driver, a judge can award costs in ecxcess of the small claims limits.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 12:46:05 pm
You can only expand on your defence when you submit your witness statement. You cannot add any new evidence in your witness statement.

If you’d waited and shown us your defence before you rushed in and submitted it, we would have provided you a Template that stretches to around 40 paragraphs. It would have been submitted as a PDF attachment to an email to the CNBC, not sent by post.

A defence is supposed to be written in the third person. Some judges may hold that against you although it is to be expected where a litigant in person with no experience has submitted it. It shows the claimant that you are unsure about your defence. Hopefully, if you follow advice here and don’t rush in and do anything else without consulting us here, there is a chance of salvaging this.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on May 21, 2024, 12:36:19 pm
I was thinking the hearing would be where I make my full defence. This is the same defence I have used throughout the process so far.

I wasn't the driver so my answer would be 'no'.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on May 21, 2024, 12:33:43 pm
Why didn’t you come here for advice on what to put in and how to file your defence? That is a poorly executed defence and has left out a multitude of other arguments.

It is better than nothing. If it ever reaches a hearing before a judge, what will your answer be if the judge asks you directly “were you the driver”?

In your “defence”, you state that the alleged debt is disputed and will be vigorously “defended”. Can you see an anomaly here? Stating that you will “vigorously defend” and then not actually “defend” anything is just plain going to show the claimant than you have no real understanding of what you have put in your defence.

Unfortunately, with the defence you have submitted, it is more likely than not going to go all the way to a hearing. I’ll come back when I see what your answer is to the above.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on May 21, 2024, 11:59:29 am
Apologies, here is the defence

https://imgur.com/a/8N9FWP7
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on May 16, 2024, 09:37:32 am
What exactly did you put in your defence? You’ve gone from LoC to N180 DQ.

It’s too late “get your defence in order”. You submitted your defence when you responded to the N1SDT form and we have no idea what you put in that.

You definitely don’t want mediation and you don’t want a hearing on papers.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: DWMB2 on May 16, 2024, 08:45:56 am
Can you show us exactly what you have received?

Unless I'm being dozy, it seems like we have missed a stage here. There's generally a Claim Form before the one asking about mediation etc.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on May 16, 2024, 07:03:24 am
Well folks, it looks like VCS are seeing this one through. I now have my Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims track.

It seems like I have no choice but to fill this form out and expect to be heading to court to defend this case.

Couple of questions

Mediation (offered in form) - is this a route to go?
Suitability for determination without a hearing. Do I consider the case to be suitable for determination without a hearing? Yes or No

Any advice on preparing for court and getting my defence in order would be very welcome

Thanks as always
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: slapdash on March 08, 2024, 01:24:17 pm
The service of debt collection is vatable in the normal way. However the VAT is for the account of the creditor. It is them who receive the service.

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 08, 2024, 12:07:13 pm
You should query why the debt recovery fee excludes the portion representing VAT. The lack of transparency is not acceptable and raises serious questions about the integrity and compliance with HMRC regulations of the debt collector. You should demand clarification on why the breakdown of the debt recovery fee fails to include the VAT component. This would appear to be an attempt to deceive you and HMRC.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on March 08, 2024, 09:28:06 am
Hi,

This is the email response from ELMS Legal?

In response to you first question, the £70 debt recovery fee does not have any VAT added or included.

Secondly, the principal debt is for a breach of the terms and conditions displayed on site at Bristol airport, to which is states ‘no stopping’. As the vehicle was stopped for an unreasonable amount of time, a charge was issued.

If you have any other queries please let us know.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on March 04, 2024, 02:09:59 pm
Thanks all, appreciate your input.

Letter is sent

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 04, 2024, 01:00:42 pm
Email it to both. It is just obfuscation by VCS to try and distract the defendant. Ultimately the OP will be dealing with just VCS.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: Nosy Parker on March 04, 2024, 12:56:55 pm
Agreed. But as Elms Legal have put themselves forward as solicitors to VCS and will be named as such on the claim form if proceedings are started, the reply should be addressed to them. VCS usually removes Elms Legal after the claim form has been served, from which point service of documents should be made to VCS
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 04, 2024, 12:32:05 pm
Elms will withdraw once the claim is filed. The letter they sent is simply a debt collection threat.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: Nosy Parker on March 04, 2024, 12:22:23 pm
Good catch

It’s fine to address to the reply to ELMS Legal as they are solicitors used by VCS to commence proceedings but by all means cc VCS.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 04, 2024, 12:04:07 pm
The response does mention VCS v Edward.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: Nosy Parker on March 04, 2024, 12:02:03 pm
I think your reply is spot on. Go for it. They can’t pursue you as driver because they can’t discharge their burden of proving that you were driving.  This was made perfectly clear in a recent appeal case that they will be aware of because VCS was the losing party - VCS v Edward (2003). You might want to update your letter to mention this.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 04, 2024, 11:55:44 am
In your response, you state that they cannot pursue you as the driver. Technically, they can pursue you as the driver but they'd have to evidence that allegation in court.

VCS will respond that the bylaws are now obsolete, which they are not.

The LoC was issued by VCS so you should be responding to VCS, not Elms. Elms are acting as a debt collector.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on March 04, 2024, 11:33:44 am
Well it didn't take long to receive my next correspondence, this time from ELMS Legal

https://imgur.com/a/nJ41kfR

Here's my proposed letter by reply

https://imgur.com/a/WJbSL37

Would welcome your thoughts / suggestions
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: H C Andersen on March 03, 2024, 04:39:07 pm
The LBC gave you one choice: pay.

If you didn't by 29 Feb. then they say they will initiate legal proceedings.

Good.

Don't concern yourself about who sent what when and why it didn't arrive until *** IMO it's not a material issue. Even if you think they post late, it would not affect legal proceedings because the court issues the claim document, not the claimant.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on March 01, 2024, 05:55:26 pm
Thanks for your help, I'll be back soon no doubt!
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 01, 2024, 05:51:00 pm
The problem is that it is difficult to prove, either way. Unless the envelope in which it arrived is postmarked, you cannot prove they sent it, deliberately or otherwise, late. Likewise, unless they have a proof of posting certificate, they cannot prove they did send it on the date they say.

You would need whoever delivers your post or someone at the local sorting office to sign a witness statement saying that it was only delivered on the date you say it was.

Whatever you do, you are now waiting for a claim to arrive. If/when it does, come back for further advice on how to deal with it.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on March 01, 2024, 05:35:20 pm
The date on the letter is 30/01/2024.

There is no postal system in the world that takes this long to deliver a letter.

The last 2 letters have been received after the deadline given in the letter, which is deeply suspicious.

They could have walked it here quicker than it would have taken by post.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 01, 2024, 05:31:17 pm
It is interesting that you have only now received the LoC. It states that it was sent 2nd class which requires 4 working days for deemed delivery. What is the date of sending on the letter and/or the envelope?

With a deadline of 29/02/2024, it should have been sent no later than 31/01/2024. If you think you need more time to digest this, you could try and send them a response telling them that, whilst you deny any debt, you require them to extend any deadline by 30 days as you are seeking debt advice. It may be too late as they may have already issued a claim today. Time will tell.

It's no big deal as you will defend the claim anyway.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on March 01, 2024, 05:23:42 pm
Do not fill in any of the forms.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on March 01, 2024, 05:20:09 pm
Hi,

I have received my next letter, which is a 'Letter Before Claim'. No surprises it arrived after the deadline.... Apparently, it was posted on 30/01 and yet it arrived 01/03...

There are some forms that I have been given to complete. You can see the forms here.

https://imgur.com/a/cDS4uHL

Should I complete them?

Is there somewhere to refer to for guidance on answers? There are different sections depending on how I choose to respond.

They are also asking intrusive questions about my financial situation which I will not respond to.

Thanks in advance

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: Nosy Parker on January 27, 2024, 05:08:28 pm
PS, If VCS takes the case to court at any time in the next 6 years, follow the advice over on https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou/p1 and you should win.


I would also add that, in view of the 6 year time limit for VCS to commence court proceedings, it is vital that whenever you move home in the next 6 years (in addition to updating your driving licence and V5C vehicle registration as required by law) you must notify VCS's data protection officer of your new address and require the erasure of your old address.  The easiest way to get a CCJ is to allow a PPC to sue you at your old address.  Royal Mail post forwarding is not 100% foolproof and nobody keeps it going for 6 years.

Send this to dataprotection@vehiclecontrol.co.uk after each move in the next 6 years:

Dear Sirs,

PCN [         ] VEHICLE [                 ]

I dispute this charge and intend to defend any claim initiated in relation to it.

Please note that I no longer reside at the address shown on the PCN and correspondence sent to me there will not reach me.  I require you to erase my former address from your records.  My new address is [                        ] and I attach proof thereof.

Yours faithfully,


Be sure to attach proof of your new address, ideally a V5C vehicle registration document (for any vehicle) but a utility bill or some official communication will do.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: Nosy Parker on January 27, 2024, 05:03:00 pm
Any idea how much could this end up costing?
Thanks again for your help

Provided you deal with the matter correctly, it should end up costing you £0.00
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: H C Andersen on January 27, 2024, 10:23:18 am
It's not a Letter of Claim, file.

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on January 26, 2024, 05:38:46 pm
Ignore the date you received any letter. A letter is "deemed" to have been delivered two working days after it is sent first class. You should keep any envelope that has a postmark on it. If they use a bulk delivery company with no postmark, unless they have a "proof of posting" certificate (free from any post office), then it is difficult to prove unless you can get a statement from your postman that they did indeed deliver it on any specific date.

It is not unknown for these scammers to claim they posted something but didn't actually do so and it is a failing that nothing has been enacted to force them to use proof of posting for correspondence that relies on dates for legal challenges. That is why email is a much better systems you have tracking date in the headers.

For example, you state above that VCS claim that they emailed you back on 22/11/2023. Are you claiming that you did not receive that email? If so, demand that they provide you with a copy of that email including all headers.

The letter you refer to that you received (Final demand) is nothing but more paper for lining the poop tray of a hamster. You should ignore anything other than a Letter of Claim from VCS or their solicitors or an actual claim form from the CNBC. If you need to familiarise yourself with what an actual letter of claim must include, please have a read of paragraph 3 of the PAP for debt claims that they must abide by:

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

If the letter doesn't include what it says in the PAP then it isn't a letter of claim and can be ignored.

You are at the stage where you must wait and see if they actually do issue an LoC or an actual claim. There is nothing you can do until then. Do not under any circumstances respond to any debt collector letters. Only a judge can decide whether you owe a debt to the scammers at VCS and according to the law (PoFA) you do not because you cannot be held liable as the keeper.

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 26, 2024, 04:45:04 pm
Hi,

There are no forms, just the letter.

Here is the letter I sent to them further to H C Andersen's helpful advice:

https://imgur.com/a/VtbuxXc

This is the email I received back that does not address the point I made in the letter...

"You appealed on 17/11/23, and we replied on 22/11/23 rejecting your appeal, using the email address you used in your original appeal

A copy is attached below

In the auto-response we sent, you were advised to add us as a contact so our emails did not go to spam or are rejected

Our reply to your appeal advised we would accept £60 by 6/12/2023 or £100 by 20/12/23

It also stated “Failure to pay this charge within the stated times may result in Debt Recovery Action being taken and further costs up to an additional £70 being incurred

As neither payment was received we have continued with our action, and the charge now being £170

We have followed our processes correctly, and we are satisfied the charge was issued correctly, and so will not look to reduce or cancel it at this time."




Here is a link to the Final Demand letter I received from VCS

https://imgur.com/a/uqnTm43


They gave me 7 days to pay.. I received the letter on the 8th day..

Thanks again

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: b789 on January 26, 2024, 03:45:36 pm
How long have they given you in this "letter" to pay? Is it 14 days or 30 days. Does the letter include the necessary forms (which you never fill in) as required under the Pre Action Protocols (PAP) for debt claims?

Why not post the letter with your personal details redacted and we can give you an opinion.

Have you had a response to the email you were advised to send to VCS by @H C Andersen?

Only low hanging fruit on the gullible tree pay VCS for a scam claim such as this. You need to fully get this into your head that no matter what VCS put in their NtK, they cannot hold the keeper liable for their allegation. They can only hold the driver liable. They have no idea who the driver is. Even if they had a high resolution image of the driver they still would not know who it is. There is no magical database with which they can compare images to in order to identify the driver. They are not allowed to use images for forensic purposes. They are not the police or any form of authority. They are a bunch of ex-clampers operating an unregulated private parking company, issuing speculative invoices for alleged breaches of contract under civil, not criminal law.

In other words, they are scammers operating on the principle that the majority of their victims are too ignorant of the law to figure out what to do and are likely to just pay up.

Should this proceed as far as a claim, you would win this in court. They know this but live in the hope that you will capitulate under the pressure of the threats about CCJs and bailiffs that they throw at you.

Whatever that letter says, you would never pay as much as that if it went to court and you lost. For a single PCN in the small claims track it would be in the region of £185-£200. Even if you were so unlucky as to lose the claim, you would never have a CCJ on your record if it was fully paid within 30 days of judgment. They are using the general publics lack of education on civil law to scare them into paying up with idle threats of CCJs etc. You are dealing with ex-clamper thugs trying to scam you.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 26, 2024, 07:37:08 am
Hi,

A quick update,

I received a final demand letter this morning 26/01/24. The letter was "posted" on 18/01/24 with a 7 day deadline to pay. I continue to be amazed how long it takes this company to get a letter to me from the apparent "posted" date. I couldn't have met this deadline even if I wanted to.

In this letter county court proceedings have been threatened.

Apparently, they will be seeking outstanding balance + court fees, solicitors fees and statutory interest.

Any idea how much could this end up costing?

Thanks again for your help
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: Nosy Parker on January 13, 2024, 08:35:47 am
And remember - this isn't a "fine".  It's a demand for money that the keeper does not owe
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 12, 2024, 09:05:49 pm
Thanks both, I really appreciate your help. I was very careful in my appeal to declare I was not the driver. I will therefore use this letter template and continue the process. I'll keep you updated.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: DWMB2 on January 12, 2024, 04:10:44 pm
As I have informed you that I wasn't the driver...
It's not clear that he has at this stage, as he does not have a copy of the initial appeal, which was made as keeper, but we don't know whether it made clear he was not the driver.

Either way, I agree that a letter along those lines, making clear you're not the driver, and that as such you have no liability, and it would be unreasonable for them to pursue you on the assumption that you were the driver, as you have confirmed to them that you are not.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: H C Andersen on January 12, 2024, 02:36:51 pm

You have told us you were not the driver.

We have told you that as keeper you do not have any liability neither are you under duty to inform the claimant of the driver's details.

Based on this, where do you put your faith and therefore your money?

If you believe they have the force of law behind them and that you as the keeper have liability and no defence then paying would be the smart move.

Otherwise don't.

It's always polite to respond the letters so I would.

Dear Sir,
Charge Notice (Notice to Keeper)No. ****** Dated 6 November 2023

I refer to the above and your Demand for Payment dated 3 January 2024. In your charge notice, you stated that the driver was liable for the charge. As I have informed you that I wasn't the driver, I do not see any value in debating with you the validity or otherwise of your assertion.  Your subsequent demand refers to 'your' account and liability and therefore I must assume that you are relying upon the following sentence in your Charge Notice:

'..we may pursue you (the keeper) on the assumption that you were the driver for any unpaid balance of the charge.'

I cannot comment on your assumption, indeed if you were an individual you would be free to hold this view. However, some might think this irresponsible and reprehensible for an Approved Operator acting with the authority of an Accredited Trade Association. I would simply observe that there is no legal basis for such an assumption and certainly no presumption.

We clearly have different views and I see no purpose in continuing to rehearse these with extended exchanges, I should therefore be grateful if you would 'commence legal proceedings' as soon as you are able so that the courts might determine whether you have a valid claim against me.

Yours...

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 11, 2024, 06:31:37 pm
Hey guys, any advice on what my best course of action is? Is it a lost cause and I'm better off paying the fine?
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 10, 2024, 10:24:20 am
Thanks again for your help and patience, here's the Imgur link

https://imgur.com/a/PyoXnjL

Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: DWMB2 on January 10, 2024, 09:59:39 am
Only one image is showing.

There is some upload space on this site but it's quite limited, so it's best to upload to a picture hosting site (such as https://imgur.com (https://imgur.com) or similar) and post links
Note: you can use the "add image" icon to embed images in your post:
(https://i.imgur.com/Wp7IOyk.png)
Please set an image width around 1500, anything more than that and it won't fit on the page.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 10, 2024, 09:43:54 am
Thanks both, I have re-uploaded, let me know if you can see the files now?

I have also attached an additional image that shows people in the road when the photo was taken

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: DWMB2 on January 10, 2024, 09:30:22 am
Quote
I can't see the attachments (possibly due to my co. firewall)
Nor can I.

There are some tips on uploading images in the 'read this first' thread at the top of the private parking forum. If you're struggling PM me.
Title: Re: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: The Rookie on January 10, 2024, 09:07:10 am
!/ This is an airport, as there are Byelaws in place the Keeper has no liability, only the unknown to them driver.
2/ As the keeper can state truthfully they were not the driver, that is very useful.
3/ The appeal time limit is wholly a construct of the industry, anyone can challenge an invoice as not being owed at any time (and certainly should, it's the 'reasonable' thing to do.
4/ Their appeal replies conveniently (for them, not for you) usually go into Spam folders and get auto deleted.  Almost like they do it by design.
5/ The addition of debt collection charges is an unjustified, and wholly ignorable, construct and never backed by courts (if it gets there).

I can't see the attachments (possibly due to my co. firewall) so can't add further.
Title: VCS Bristol Airport - Missed failed appeal email - £170 demand for payment
Post by: paulswhitt on January 10, 2024, 08:08:26 am
Hi,

Hope you can help as the registered keeper is being asked to pay £170 to Vehicle Solutions Limited following a 46) Stopping in a zone where stopping is not permitted.

The driver of the vehicle in question was dropping a passenger off at Bristol airport Hilton hotel on 26/10/23.

Having noticed a barrier to enter the car park, the driver turned around, spent 1 minute researching where to drop the passenger, then waited for people in the road to clear (which can be seen on the photo) and then pulled away. The car was captured on CCTV.

The registered keeper received a CN, NTK from Vehicle Control Services Ltd on 17/11/23

The registered keeper appealed the notice on 17/11/2023 on 2 accounts. (There is no copy of the exact wording of the appeal submitted as it was entered into the myparkingcharge.co.uk portal.)

1) The driver was not the registered keeper
2) the CN was received outside of the notice period

On 9/01/24 the registered keeper received a demand for payment letter

The keeper did not receive a response to the appeal and responded to the demand for payment with an email on 08/01/2024

The registered keeper received a response claiming that the response was sent and attaching the response (rejection) to the appeal dated 22/11/23.

All communications are here https://imgur.com/a/PyoXnjL

[attachment deleted by admin]