Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Findingaway on August 17, 2026, 10:37:32 am
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Hi!
I have just had the exact same issue - I got 7x 50J in the same place. I have missed the deadlines for appeals as I wasn't in the country. Now each fine is £240 and being sent to debt collection which adds to the cost.
Anyone know how I can freeze this situation and get them to understand that I was not in the country to receive those letters or appeal within 14 days which is an incredibly short timeframe.
Thanks!
pPlease start your own thread. The rule is on original poster per thread. However, keep looking at this one if it helps you.
If your case has gone to bailiffs, the only way to revert to the PCN stage is to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration, one per PCN.
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Hi!
I have just had the exact same issue - I got 7x 50J in the same place. I have missed the deadlines for appeals as I wasn't in the country. Now each fine is £240 and being sent to debt collection which adds to the cost.
Anyone know how I can freeze this situation and get them to understand that I was not in the country to receive those letters or appeal within 14 days which is an incredibly short timeframe.
Thanks!
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Thank you. I genuinely have no recollection of this sign. I will drive past to take a picture.
Noted about the objective points 👍 I appreciate it
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For what it's worth, Google Maps (at least now) seems to recognise that the turn is prohibited and takes you round the block instead.
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Thanks!What I find odd is that they completely ignored my point about the foliage covering the “No Right Turn” sign.
There are 2 signs(at least). And you drove past both. Would you be saying to the adjudicator that both were obscured? Is this realistic given that the authority would be bound to introduce this evidence?
https://maps.app.goo.gl/i1z4jxvUDzCyHvweA
IMO, you should lead with objective matters i.e. the cumulative penalty for something you missed or misunderstood.
You then have the procedural errors in their NORs, again these are objective.
Then....
Pl remember, the adjudicator cannot consider purely mitigating circumstances.
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Hi, I'm messaging to help bump this post. This happened to me. Firstly as you've found. the appeal process is entirely automated. You should build up as many disputes as you can and go with the strongest. for example in my case their appeals failed to take into account anything id mentioned at all. thats a failure to consider. also look at the offences themselves. check the signage is clear and compliant. look into what constitutes as complaint as if in anyway they have failed to comply you can write all of them off. prepare to prove that this amount would cause financial hardship, as if that is actually the case and all else fails you may be able to pay over time instead of at once.
additionally note the timings of the appeal letters. in my case they sent the notice of rejection letters prematurely which gave me grounds to appeal. I'm currently waiting for my hearing and was very lucky in that i had a member of this forum help take on my case personally for me. i would've never had known to do any of this otherwise.
Thanks!What I find odd is that they completely ignored my point about the foliage covering the “No Right Turn” sign.
As a driver coming up to the road, I’m obviously going to be looking out for oncoming traffic, pedestrians, cyclists etc. I’m not going to be scanning around for another sign further ahead if I can’t see a “No Right Turn” sign on approach.
I just find it strange that they’ve basically dismissed that point given the evidence that they have provided, because surely the visibility of the sign is pretty important here. If the sign is hidden by foliage, how is a driver reasonably supposed to know they need to look for another sign before entering? This is dangerous, as you would have already committed to the turn.
thats because their rejections are almost always automated. they don't actually look at your appeal or if they do. they know most people wont risk going to court. they hold all the power. but court is the only way to actually have someone hear your case. its a broken system in my opinion.
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This process deals with specified and sometimes defined terms. Details matter.
'All of the rejection notices were issued on 12 August, and they’ve given me two weeks to pay at the 50% discounted rate.'
No they haven't.
You have '14 days from the date of this letter being served to do this [pay at the discount rate]'.
All letters are deemed served on 14th, therefore their offer expires on 28th.
The NORs are a complete mess as regards what they're supposed to include.
Rejection of representations against penalty charge notice
3Where any representations are made under paragraph 1 above but the enforcing authority do not accept that a ground has been established, the notice served under sub-paragraph (7) of the said paragraph 1 (in this Schedule referred to as “the notice of rejection”) must—
(a)state that a charge certificate may be served [they use will be sent] under paragraph 5 below unless before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice of rejection[They use 'after 28 days', whatever that's supposed to mean!]—
(i)the penalty charge is paid[They use 'you have 28 days from the date of our notice to do this! FFS]; or
(ii)the person on whom the notice is served appeals to a traffic adjudicator against the penalty charge; and
(b)describe in general terms the form and manner in which such an appeal must be made,
The NORs are grossly defective. You could appeal on the grounds of a collateral challenge e.g. the NORs are so defective that you feel compelled to include this within your appeal which you would ask the adjudicator to consider as a collateral challenge.
Others might comment.
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“I don’t think it would be safe or realistic to suddenly stop just before entering the road.”
I’m not sure that this argument will work.
What would be your answer be if you were asked what you would do if you saw a cyclist overtaking you on the right just as you were about to turn?
Because they may take the view that if it is safe to stop in those circumstances, then it is safe to stop.
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You're putting us under pressure because you're under pressure because you know whether the discounts were re-offered and when they expire. But we don't.
Would you please catalogue the dates of contravention and corresponding dates of issue of the PCNs and NORs and whether the discount has been re-offered. Let's see what options you have.
You drew our attention to the sign/foliage issue at the turn, but now you say that the preceding sign was obscured. Is this still the case?
I took a picture of the road from Google to explain this a bit better (first link).
The black lines and arrows show the direction/trajectory of travel. The sign circled in red is the “No Right Turn” sign, which was obscured by greenery and it is shown (barely) on the ccvt from the council. The sign circled in orange is the blue “Buses and Cycles Only” sign at the entrance to the road but cannot be seen in the videos.
Because I couldn’t see the No Right Turn sign, I was focused on making the turn safely rather than looking further ahead for another restriction sign.
The second link shows the contravention date and when the PCN was issued. All of the rejection notices were issued on 12 August, and they’ve given me two weeks to pay at the 50% discounted rate.
thank you
https://imgpile.com/m/wDjAXxR
https://imgpile.com/m/wWI36v2
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You're putting us under pressure because you're under pressure because you know whether the discounts were re-offered and when they expire. But we don't.
Would you please catalogue the dates of contravention and corresponding dates of issue of the PCNs and NORs and whether the discount has been re-offered. Let's see what options you have.
You drew our attention to the sign/foliage issue at the turn, but now you say that the preceding sign was obscured. Is this still the case?
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Is there a reason why the post is not getting replies?
Because we are all volunteers and some of us are dealing with Judicial Review matters. PM reeived.
Hello - your help is very much appreciated. I thought I didn't write my post properly as I was seeing posts written after mine getting responses, so I thought I made a mistake I needed to correct.
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As regards signage, if you look at GSV, the NRT has been in place for nearly 20 years. Which begs the question: why was it only recently that you started to use the road? What could you put to an adjudicator on this point?
You also seem to have side-stepped this comment in the NOR: '..there are several signs as you approach Northgate, informing motorists of the restriction ahead'
And indeed there is a large one at the j/w Manor House Drive.
Apparently you made reference to using satnav which IMO would likely lead an adjudicator to think: not paying attention to road signs. But given that the restriction has been there for some time and the age of your car, surely satnav did not direct you to take this turn?
Also, which road prohibits the right turn? It certainly isn't Northgate, so why give this as the location? Is giving the location of the camera sufficient? Others will have views.
Would you please catalogue the dates of contravention and corresponding dates of issue of the PCNs and NORs and whether the discount has been re-offered. Let's see what options you have.
Thank you for looking for possible loopholes — it really does help, so I appreciate it.
Perhaps I wasn’t very clear in my earlier post. There are only two relevant signs from the council:
The “No Right Turn” sign at the Manor, which is the one I circled in the image I shared. You can’t actually see the Manor in the image because it’s outside the frame. This is the only “No Right Turn” sign, and it was the one obscured by the foliage.
There is then a second sign at the beginning of the road that you’re not supposed to enter, which is an “Only Buses and Bicycles” sign. That sign also isn’t visible in the CCTV.
My point is that once you’ve committed to the turn because the “No Right Turn” sign is obscured, I don’t think it would be safe or realistic to suddenly stop just before entering the road. At that point you’re already committed to the manoeuvre and need to be looking out for oncoming traffic, pedestrians etc. Stopping unexpectedly could potentially be dangerous.
I’m also struggling financially to pay even the discounted fines, so taking this to the tribunal and losing would put me in a very difficult position. I’m not trying to avoid paying if I’m in the wrong — I would be willing to accept paying the first one if that helps make my case — but I’m finding it really unfair to be penalised multiple times when the main restriction sign was not clearly visible because it was covered by foliage and they took over 2 weeks to send me the first PCN.
I’m just trying to work out whether I have a reasonable case before taking the risk of going to tribunal and potentially ending up with several full penalties.
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Is there a reason why the post is not getting replies?
Because we are all volunteers and some of us are dealing with Judicial Review matters. PM reeived.
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The first actual no turn to the right was blocked by foliage - this is the sign at the Manor.
So not the one you've circled or referred to or the one referred to by the authority.
I am not trying to be picky for fun. When you make an argument, it should not have the wrinkles yours does. I think you should focus on the multi-penalty being disproportionate. By all means add that you don't disregard traffic signs for fun and that there must have been a reason why - previous GSV show that the tree adjacent to the traffic sign specified by the council is prone to epicormic growth which has the capacity to throw out clusters of dense foliage.
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Hillingdon website grounds page? What does it show?
The Hillingdon Council parks directory does not display the street navigation from Duck's Hill Road into Northgate.
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As regards signage, if you look at GSV, the NRT has been in place for nearly 20 years. Which begs the question: why was it only recently that you started to use the road? What could you put to an adjudicator on this point?
You also seem to have side-stepped this comment in the NOR: '..there are several signs as you approach Northgate, informing motorists of the restriction ahead'
And indeed there is a large one at the j/w Manor House Drive.
Apparently you made reference to using satnav which IMO would likely lead an adjudicator to think: not paying attention to road signs. But given that the restriction has been there for some time and the age of your car, surely satnav did not direct you to take this turn?
Also, which road prohibits the right turn? It certainly isn't Northgate, so why give this as the location? Is giving the location of the camera sufficient? Others will have views.
Would you please catalogue the dates of contravention and corresponding dates of issue of the PCNs and NORs and whether the discount has been re-offered. Let's see what options you have.
I am not from the area. I go to the Pinner area to help my daughter. The normal route I take was closed due to roadworks, so I looked at Google Maps, saw which way it was taking me and closed the app.
When it states several, they mean two signs - no more. The first actual no turn to the right was blocked by foliage - this is the sign at the Manor. The next sign is right at the start of the road when you have already committed to the turn and cannot stop now, and it is a blue sign.
Here is a table showing offence dates and dates of notice - the letters came into the post 2 to 3 days after the notice dates. https://imgpile.com/m/dDVxplD
This is Duck's Hill Road into Northgate.
My problem lies with the fact that if I had known about it earlier, I would have stopped taking that route. It is a real hit for me in terms of finances...
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As regards signage, if you look at GSV, the NRT has been in place for nearly 20 years. Which begs the question: why was it only recently that you started to use the road? What could you put to an adjudicator on this point?
You also seem to have side-stepped this comment in the NOR: '..there are several signs as you approach Northgate, informing motorists of the restriction ahead'
And indeed there is a large one at the j/w Manor House Drive.
Apparently you made reference to using satnav which IMO would likely lead an adjudicator to think: not paying attention to road signs. But given that the restriction has been there for some time and the age of your car, surely satnav did not direct you to take this turn?
Also, which road prohibits the right turn? It certainly isn't Northgate, so why give this as the location? Is giving the location of the camera sufficient? Others will have views.
Would you please catalogue the dates of contravention and corresponding dates of issue of the PCNs and NORs and whether the discount has been re-offered. Let's see what options you have.
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Hillingdon website grounds page? What does it show?
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Send the back side of one of them please.
https://imgpile.com/m/0Tm23X4
All of them have the same front and back.
Miraculously, they have listed all the grounds correctly, so the procedural impropriety argument won’t work. The thing is, if you end up taking this to the Tribunal and set aside the discount the adjudicator (if you win), will accept some appeals and deny some, forcing you to pay the full amount for those. If you pay the discounted amounts for all of these PCNs it will amount to almost the same as going to tribunal, with less risk. Using solely the argument of fairness and proportionality will most likely result in this, so you’ll have to take a legal approach as to the legality of the restriction, research the valid traffic management order for it.
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Hi, I'm messaging to help bump this post. This happened to me. Firstly as you've found. the appeal process is entirely automated. You should build up as many disputes as you can and go with the strongest. for example in my case their appeals failed to take into account anything id mentioned at all. thats a failure to consider. also look at the offences themselves. check the signage is clear and compliant. look into what constitutes as complaint as if in anyway they have failed to comply you can write all of them off. prepare to prove that this amount would cause financial hardship, as if that is actually the case and all else fails you may be able to pay over time instead of at once.
additionally note the timings of the appeal letters. in my case they sent the notice of rejection letters prematurely which gave me grounds to appeal. I'm currently waiting for my hearing and was very lucky in that i had a member of this forum help take on my case personally for me. i would've never had known to do any of this otherwise.
Thanks!What I find odd is that they completely ignored my point about the foliage covering the “No Right Turn” sign.
As a driver coming up to the road, I’m obviously going to be looking out for oncoming traffic, pedestrians, cyclists etc. I’m not going to be scanning around for another sign further ahead if I can’t see a “No Right Turn” sign on approach.
I just find it strange that they’ve basically dismissed that point given the evidence that they have provided, because surely the visibility of the sign is pretty important here. If the sign is hidden by foliage, how is a driver reasonably supposed to know they need to look for another sign before entering? This is dangerous, as you would have already committed to the turn.
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Send the back side of one of them please.
https://imgpile.com/m/0Tm23X4
All of them have the same front and back.
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Send the back side of one of them please.
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Can you also send the back of the PCN letters, they are required to state the grounds of appeal, if they are wrong this can be enough to cancel the PCN due to a procedural impropriety. I have seen Hillingdon fail to list the grounds correctly for bus lane cases.
Hello - all PCNs at the back have only the section "how to pay" and "making representation". There are no further details on the PCN besides what I shared and they are all identical in their wording.
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https://imgpile.com/m/dpQTx0A
https://imgpile.com/m/DbOzPpx
https://imgpile.com/m/QEx8qeL
https://imgpile.com/m/xbIwOs7
Hello,
I am a single-income earner (30K-35K) facing 9 separate 50J (Prohibited Right Turn) PCNs from Hillingdon Council at Northgate, Northwood, totalling £1,440 at the full rate. I challenged all of them individually through the council portal, but they have issued formal Notices of Rejection for all nine cases. I am preparing to take this to the London Tribunals but desperately need your expertise on the viability of a cumulative penalty defense, as well as a review of potential procedural errors in the council's documentation.
The Timeline & Context:
First Alleged Contravention Date: 24/06/2026
Subsequent Contravention Dates: 8 further infractions between 25/06/2026 and 06/07/2026.
Date First PCN Arrived at my home: After 09/07/2026 (over a 14-day administrative delay from the first camera capture).
Date of Notices of Rejection:12th August
The Core Issues:
Lack of Current Evidence & Signage: The restriction sign was heavily obscured by seasonal foliage growing from a private property next to the junction. Because the council delayed serving the first notice by more than two weeks, I didn't take any pictures and when I went to check the branches had been cut off.But from the videos/ evidence from the council, you can see how much foliage there is.
For their notice of rejection/sign evidence, the council is relying on stock library photographs taken on a completely different date, when the trees were clear.
Procedural Unfairness / Cumulative Penalties: Because Hillingdon Council’s automated portal forces motorists to challenge each ticket in absolute isolation, I could not present a multi-ticket chronological timeline during the initial representation stage.
Continuous Misunderstanding: I committed a single, continuous mistake across these dates precisely because the council failed to notify me of the first infraction in a timely manner. Had the first notice arrived promptly, I would have immediately ceased making the turn.
My Strategy & Questions for the Forum:
I am strongly considering paying the £80 discount rate for the very first PCN (24 June) to limit financial exposure and prove to the adjudicator that I accept the initial warning mechanism of the law and that I take responsibility.
I then plan to appeal PCNs 2 through 9 at the London Tribunals on the grounds of procedural failure and cumulative penalty precedent, requesting that the adjudicator group them under a single lead case.
Do the council's stock photos from an unverified date legally satisfy their burden of proof for the 24 June to 6th of July contraventions? Can anyone point me to specific London Tribunals key case numbers regarding cumulative/sequential penalties resulting from a mailing delay that I can quote to the adjudicator?
I have uploaded the first PCN, the CCTV still, and the Notice of Rejection below. Can anyone spot any technical flaws or a "failure to consider" in Hillingdon's rejection wording? They talk about two signs - The No Right Turn sign before the road was obscured by foliage, which meant I did not see the restriction. There is also a blue sign immediately before the road indicating access for buses and bicycles. I accept that this sign was present, but because I had not seen the No Right Turn sign, I did not appreciate that I was prohibited from turning/ my brain thought it was an informative blue sign hence why I accept the mistake.
Can you also send the back of the PCN letters, they are required to state the grounds of appeal, if they are wrong this can be enough to cancel the PCN due to a procedural impropriety. I have seen Hillingdon fail to list the grounds correctly for bus lane cases.
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Hi, I'm messaging to help bump this post. This happened to me. Firstly as you've found. the appeal process is entirely automated. You should build up as many disputes as you can and go with the strongest. for example in my case their appeals failed to take into account anything id mentioned at all. thats a failure to consider. also look at the offences themselves. check the signage is clear and compliant. look into what constitutes as complaint as if in anyway they have failed to comply you can write all of them off. prepare to prove that this amount would cause financial hardship, as if that is actually the case and all else fails you may be able to pay over time instead of at once.
additionally note the timings of the appeal letters. in my case they sent the notice of rejection letters prematurely which gave me grounds to appeal. I'm currently waiting for my hearing and was very lucky in that i had a member of this forum help take on my case personally for me. i would've never had known to do any of this otherwise.
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Apologies! I thought my response was not in line with the guidelines. Correct - all videos are of the same nature. The clearest video the council has is the following.
https://imgpile.com/m/18hpaeQ
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Have patience.
It looks like you are on the right track.
I don't think an adjudicator will be impressed with videos if they are all like this.
(https://i.ibb.co/fGpJ6y98/Get-Video12-ezgif-com-video-to-gif-converter.gif)
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Is there a reason why the post is not getting replies?
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https://imgpile.com/m/dpQTx0A
https://imgpile.com/m/DbOzPpx
https://imgpile.com/m/QEx8qeL
https://imgpile.com/m/xbIwOs7
Hello,
I am a single-income earner (30K-35K) facing 9 separate 50J (Prohibited Right Turn) PCNs from Hillingdon Council at Northgate, Northwood, totalling £1,440 at the full rate. I challenged all of them individually through the council portal, but they have issued formal Notices of Rejection for all nine cases. I am preparing to take this to the London Tribunals but desperately need your expertise on the viability of a cumulative penalty defense, as well as a review of potential procedural errors in the council's documentation.
The Timeline & Context:
First Alleged Contravention Date: 24/06/2026
Subsequent Contravention Dates: 8 further infractions between 25/06/2026 and 06/07/2026.
Date First PCN Arrived at my home: After 09/07/2026 (over a 14-day administrative delay from the first camera capture).
Date of Notices of Rejection:12th August
The Core Issues:
Lack of Current Evidence & Signage: The restriction sign was heavily obscured by seasonal foliage growing from a private property next to the junction. Because the council delayed serving the first notice by more than two weeks, I didn't take any pictures and when I went to check the branches had been cut off.But from the videos/ evidence from the council, you can see how much foliage there is.
For their notice of rejection/sign evidence, the council is relying on stock library photographs taken on a completely different date, when the trees were clear.
Procedural Unfairness / Cumulative Penalties: Because Hillingdon Council’s automated portal forces motorists to challenge each ticket in absolute isolation, I could not present a multi-ticket chronological timeline during the initial representation stage.
Continuous Misunderstanding: I committed a single, continuous mistake across these dates precisely because the council failed to notify me of the first infraction in a timely manner. Had the first notice arrived promptly, I would have immediately ceased making the turn.
My Strategy & Questions for the Forum:
I am strongly considering paying the £80 discount rate for the very first PCN (24 June) to limit financial exposure and prove to the adjudicator that I accept the initial warning mechanism of the law and that I take responsibility.
I then plan to appeal PCNs 2 through 9 at the London Tribunals on the grounds of procedural failure and cumulative penalty precedent, requesting that the adjudicator group them under a single lead case.
Do the council's stock photos from an unverified date legally satisfy their burden of proof for the 24 June to 6th of July contraventions? Can anyone point me to specific London Tribunals key case numbers regarding cumulative/sequential penalties resulting from a mailing delay that I can quote to the adjudicator?
I have uploaded the first PCN, the CCTV still, and the Notice of Rejection below. Can anyone spot any technical flaws or a "failure to consider" in Hillingdon's rejection wording? They talk about two signs - The No Right Turn sign before the road was obscured by foliage, which meant I did not see the restriction. There is also a blue sign immediately before the road indicating access for buses and bicycles. I accept that this sign was present, but because I had not seen the No Right Turn sign, I did not appreciate that I was prohibited from turning/ my brain thought it was an informative blue sign hence why I accept the mistake.