Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: ads2021 on June 28, 2023, 04:44:50 pm
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We did pay up and move on indeed thank you for your time everyone.
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As above- not crime of the century so leniency doesn't really kick-in when the 'punishment' is at the very bottom of the usual scale.
Like a couple of million in the UK, ay up and move on.
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At the worst you'll get 3 points and £100 fine. Going to plead at court (single justice procedure) might have a chance but I very much doubt it and when you lose will be more expensive.
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Thank you, I wasn't aware. Just checked - the TSRGD was changed in 2016 that allows Councils not to use two signs to indicate a change in speed limit if they don't want to. This is all justified as cost savings - but if I were a cynical person, maybe I'd suggest it could be used to create ambiguity - obviously no Council would do that.....
What do you suppose a council could gain from ambiguity?
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Thank you, I wasn't aware. Just checked - the TSRGD was changed in 2016 that allows Councils not to use two signs to indicate a change in speed limit if they don't want to. This is all justified as cost savings - but if I were a cynical person, maybe I'd suggest it could be used to create ambiguity - obviously no Council would do that.....
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To indicate a change in speed limit there needs to be two signs, either side of the road/carriageway both facing the driver. Two signs are there but the one on the nearside is not visible due to the bush - therefore it may give the impression that the whole road is subject to a 40mph limit. However it is worth nothing that there is a 30mph sign that you would have just passed just before the junction. But if when you went through there, the nearside sign was clearly visible (i.e. the bushes had been cut back), then you don't have much of a defence.
The requirement for sign both sides of the road was removed a couple of years ago unfortunately so no mileage in that.
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To indicate a change in speed limit there needs to be two signs, either side of the road/carriageway both facing the driver. Two signs are there but the one on the nearside is not visible due to the bush - therefore it may give the impression that the whole road is subject to a 40mph limit. However it is worth nothing that there is a 30mph sign that you would have just passed just before the junction. But if when you went through there, the nearside sign was clearly visible (i.e. the bushes had been cut back), then you don't have much of a defence.
I believe the way you would present this possible defence is to request a court hearing, the police are simply reporting you for the offence so cannot rescind it at this point. Therefore, as CP states, if the Magistrate does not agree with your defence, any fines and or points are likely to be higher than any fixed penalty you may be offered by the Police Justice Unit (or whatever the equivalent is in Merseyside).
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Do you think there is any way to request leniency? Due to stress of section 21 eviction, + anxiety, etc.?
You could ask but honestly you'd be wasting your time. The police tend to follow the guidelines pretty must all the time so the only way to ask for leniency would be to go to court and ask the magistrates, but any fine imposed by the magistrates is likely to be more than the fixed penalty amount, so it would seem entirely pointless.
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Do you think there is any way to request leniency? Due to stress of section 21 eviction, + anxiety, etc.?
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:( Okay thank you for trying!
Anna
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I can't see anything here that would amount to a defence.
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Thank you for the replies.
Here is the Googles streetview (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3557286,-2.9038268,3a,75y,111.28h,75.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0Jey6KMZELVo_DGOveVPyQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
and some photos:
Photo 1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198173615@N08/53009247947/in/dateposted/)
Photo 2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198173615@N08/53009840946/in/photostream/)
Speed camera 1 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198173615@N08/53010225150/in/dateposted/)
Speed camera 2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/198173615@N08/53009840926/in/photostream/)
Many thanks, appreciate your time.
Anna
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There should be signage actually at the junction to remind you it is still 30.
Without knowing the exact location it's difficult to comment. But from what I've seen of Garston Way, it has a continuous system of streetlighting. No "30" repeaters are required because the streetlighting denotes the limit.
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I am usually careful particularly at this junction as it can be confusing.
What junction? Give us a link to the exact spot on google street view please, otherwise we have no idea what you're talking about.
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Can't believe I'm here again so soon! So appreciate the advice here! I have just been using the council PCN section.
I have used the NIP Wizard on Pepipoo to inform my post, here are my answers. Hope you can help!
What is the name of the Constabulary?
Merseyside Police
Date of the offence:
9/6/23
Date of the NIP:
13/6/23
Date you received the NIP:
14/6/23 (I think)
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important):
Garston Way / Dock Road, Liverpool, L19
Was the NIP addressed to you? Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? Not known
How many current points do you have? 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons:
I had recently been served a section 21 notice and had to find a new place to live quickly and unexpectedly. I was just starting to move my belongings to my new home. I suffer with anxiety even at the best of times and was stressed with moving home and the circumstances. I hadn’t had much sleep either. I was driving to get kfc in between trips between my old and new home, not having eaten all day.
I am usually careful particularly at this junction as it can be confusing. You see two big 40 signs in distance. There should be signage actually at the junction to remind you it is still 30. There is a tiny 30 sign and a speed camera sign further back but at the junction you see 40 not 30. If you're distracted its so easy to forget.
I have been caught on a speeding camera here before because of this but did the speed awareness course last time so no points (less than three years ago). At the speed awareness we were told that speed limit signs are usually at junctions.
I suddenly realised that I was honouring the 40 sign I could see ahead too soon. I attempted to brake (my brake lights can be seen in photo) but was apparently too late.
This was clearly a lapse in judgement especially since I had previously been caught out at the same junction a year earlier. However, I believe the position of the speed signs to have played a part as well.