Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: LondonTraveller84 on July 05, 2026, 06:50:48 pm
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Also another point I'd mention now, so it helps in the wider case - I had a PCN, last year for the exact contravention, on the same road, same car I believe, but in a bay closer to the house. I won that using the same TMO excemption, although the council dropped it a day before adjudication.
Question to you all is, would it aid my case referencing that PCN or play against me? ie would the adjudcator take that as a negative and in bad light, that I've parked in a disabled before etc.
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On this forum it's best to wait for more views before acting if there's time but this wasn't a slam dunk in my view.
Totally understand, With my other PCN's, I've posted with a day left, then I panic and make a rash decision, based on the odd one or two replies I may get. However on this one I've posted earlier, giving enough time for response from all you experienced members.
As far as I can tell I've lost the discount at the first stage, now that it's at NTO/NOR, so it'd make sense to go all the way, even if the discount was still there, I'd find it unfair if i got penalise dfor something where what I was doing was genuinely allowed under the TMO as an exemption.
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On this forum it's best to wait for more views before acting if there's time but this wasn't a slam dunk in my view.
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Ahhh now I wish I had fought it, after reading your post, it gave some re-assurance.
I based it on the fact we had discussed the service of the PCN and I believe it wasn't a solid case, ie we came to the conclusion it was considered served, at the point I took it, hence this argument was out of the window.
But I think as a whole it would have come down to the adjudicator on the day, so a 50/50 gamble.
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Good point about location of service by tincombe. I wasn't sure. It would have been interesting to test this - I suspect it would depend on the adjudicator as often in cases that are not directly addressed in the regs.
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Today is the last day for the reduced payment taking their letter as written, but whether their website is marching in time with it, who knows?
IMO, @stamfordman referred to a point earlier, namely where a PCN is to be served. IMO, notwithstanding that the location of service is not specified in the regs, it is implicit that it must be served at the location specified on the PCN otherwise the person who appears to be in charge of the vehicle could not with absolute certainty assess the context in which the contravention allegedly occurred e.g. lines, signs etc. because they are not at the location. This places them and ultimately the owner in an unfair situation. The law provides for when a vehicle leaves a location i.e. service of reg. 10 PCN. IMO, it is improper to serve a reg. 9 other than at the location of the contravention.
If it was me, I would argue this at a hearing.
But it's not and I was not party to this:
The warden then walked away holding the PCN, I had said you haven't put it on my car and taken a photo, so can it not be cancelled, he still said no and said it wouldnt matter, as its the same as a driver driving off, not allowing the warden to put the PCN on the windscreen, they'd just send it through the post. At this point as he had walked off, i got into the car to leave.
A few minutes later, I decided to go back and find him because I wanted to understand why he couldn't cancel it and what he would be putting in his notes, so that if I appealed, everything would match up. He said he was going to speak to the other parking officer and would give me a call later, but I never heard anything.
When I found him again, he asked me to take the PCN from him, as otherwise it would simply be sent to me by post.
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Just an update, I've decided to bite the bullet and pay, as odds looked small on both potential arguments we considered (PCN not being issued on car and the the zero payment) :(
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Having received this on teh 15th or dated 15th, would it be 14+2 ontop? so instead of 29th being the last day, it'll be 31st?
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A gamble though right? to hope I get the right adjudicator, also then to justify the argument with substance, as I can imagine all I'd say is how can you pay for something that is free and thats it :/
I can mention the service wasn't done, but think the adjudicator will know as do redbridge, it doenst matter, as it was served later on when i decided to find the warden :(
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It's possible if you get the right adjudicator but the next stage is an NTO so you could have another go adding in the fact about service was not done at the location and see if they mess up the rejection.
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Council responded last week, I assume best to bite the bullet and pay? as only chance I have is the zero payment route but its a risky one?
https://ibb.co/xNH5ZCc
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I'll be submitting the following, which is an extract of one argument point I used (in the other case) to which they replied with the above.
I am submitting a formal representation against the Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) issued under contravention code 11: “Parked without payment of the parking charge.”
The Contravention Did Not Occur
The parking charge was £0.00 – no monetary payment was due. This is a crucial point, the location in which the vehicle was parked carried a £0.00 parking charge during the relevant period.
Where the required payment is £0.00, it is impossible to “fail to pay the parking charge” because:
* No monetary payment is required,
* No monetary payment is possible, and
* A charge of £0.00 cannot logically be “unpaid.”
I was tempted to add that, I had nipped in to the shop for 2-3 minutes, the CEO notes would confirm this, so thought not to waste a free ringo session, but I know the council will not consider or be emphatetic..
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thanks Stamfordman, was just about to do a appeal with something basic to buy some time and looking online and sources also suggest there is no location element, so doubt I'd get away with that.
The no payment one is an option, but the council will 110% argue that, I have just recieved their adjudication notes for a hearing next week, in which they respond to this point, I'll share it on the case in question tomorrow as theyve thoroughly responded to numerous points including excersising discretion, to the point Im not sure what I'd say in ajudication :(, but for the purpose of this PCN, below is the extract from their notes.
The Appellant argues that the parking charge applicable during the relevant period was £0.00 and accordingly it was impossible to fail to pay a parking charge.
The local legislation is The Redbridge (Waiting, Loading, Stopping and Street Parking Places) Consolidation Order 2021 Traffic Management Order LBR No. 25/2021. Article 32 which stipulates a driver who leaves a vehicle in a parking place shall immediately pay the appropriate parking charge as set out in Schedule 6 to this Order for the corresponding tariff code identified in the Map Schedules with reference to the Map Tile Label and/or Map Schedule Legend.
The Order does not exempt zero tariff periods from registration. A £0.00 tariff is still a “parking charge” set at zero. Therefore, a failure to register is a failure to comply with Article 32, even during the free hour.
London Borough of Barnet v The Parking Adjudicator [2011] EWHC 295 (Admin): “Where a TMO defines the mechanism of payment, compliance with that mechanism is mandatory.”
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The regulation about service says:
9. Where a civil enforcement officer has reason to believe that a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle which is stationary in a civil enforcement area, he may serve a penalty charge notice—
(a)by fixing it to the vehicle; or
(b)giving it to the person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle.
So I guess b applies as there is no stipulation of location.
This is one of several cases where adjudicators take the view that you can't pay for a free thing.
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Case reference 2250592026
Appellant xxxxxx
Authority London Borough of Hounslow
VRM EX14ZKY
PCN Details
PCN NJ4272516A
Contravention date 21 Aug 2025
Contravention time 09:03:00
Contravention location Heston Park Leisure Centre
Penalty amount GBP 110.00
Contravention Parked without payment of the parking charge
Referral date -
Decision Date 02 Apr 2026
Adjudicator Edward Houghton
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons I heard the Appellant by audio link. . His case is essentially that the requirement to make payment to park was not sufficiently clearly indicated.
The Council rely on the large white sign at the entrance o the car park and the presence of other signage within it as shown in the site photographs. However the Appellant t submits (supported by a photograph) that the sign at the entrance positioned well to the right is no clearly visible to a motorist turning left into the car park . The site photographs show a scattering of signs within the car park but none of them mention the requirement for payment, The CEO photographed a small pay by phone sign but where this was located in relation to the Appellant’s vehicle is not clear. On balance it seems to me that a good deal more could be done to alert the motorist to the fact that payment was required. As I am not satisfied the requirement relied on was sufficient clearly signed the Appeal is allowed.
Although it is not necessary to come to a final conclusion on the point it also seems to me a little difficult to see how a PCN can be issued for a failure to make payment when it appears from the Traffic Management Order that the first three hours of parking are “free”, and when therefore ,by definition, no payment is actually required.
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or is this one of those basing it on probabilty, it's better to just cut my losses and pay the discounted rate?
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If you hadn't pursued the CEO and got the PCN it looks like you would have had an easy win as you didn't prevent service at the location. This point may still be open to you.
Umff! something noted for future :( I'm guessing he would have put it in his notes, that the PCN was handed at a later point through the car window - so I cannot use this angle? or are we saying I can still use it, as the requirement is it has to be served at the location and not a different street?
You can argue that you can't pay for something free and that can win at the tribunal but less likely now.
Why less likely now? are they clamping down on this and the adjudicators do not take this view any more?
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If you hadn't pursued the CEO and got the PCN it looks like you would have had an easy win as you didn't prevent service at the location. This point may still be open to you.
You can argue that you can't pay for something free and that can win at the tribunal but less likely now.
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Guys,
I was only in the shop for about two minutes, so I didn't see the point in getting a ticket for an hour. When I came back out, the warden had already started printing the PCN. I explained that I'd literally only been in the shop for a couple of minutes, but he said he couldn't cancel it. What I found strange is that I've previously had a warden at the same location cancel a PCN even after it had been printed.
The warden then walked away holding the PCN, I had said you haven't put it on my car and taken a photo, so can it not be cancelled, he still said no and said it wouldnt matter, as its the same as a driver driving off, not allowing the warden to put the PCN on the windscreen, they'd just send it through the post. At this point as he had walked off, i got into the car to leave.
A few minutes later, I decided to go back and find him because I wanted to understand why he couldn't cancel it and what he would be putting in his notes, so that if I appealed, everything would match up. He said he was going to speak to the other parking officer and would give me a call later, but I never heard anything.
When I found him again, he asked me to take the PCN from him, as otherwise it would simply be sent to me by post.
What options, if any, do I have, I have tomorrow I believe the last day to appeal to hold the discount. I often see people mention that if the first hour is free, technically no payment is required. Does that argument actually hold any weight, or is it irrelevant if you still need to obtain a free parking ticket?
https://ibb.co/hFR8PFSs
https://ibb.co/rfwQTDG4
Thanks