Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: challenge_cheaters on December 21, 2023, 11:48:38 am
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You've got plenty of time to study POFA and prepare your POPLA appeal - until 19 February, but don't leave it till the last minute.
You've got the outline in the initial appeal that I drafted for you in Reply #10. You just need to flesh it out a little and change the language to reflect that you are now writing to POPLA rather than the parking company.
If you'd like our advice before sending it off to POPLA please post the draft here (without revealing the POPLA code or any other confidential details) in the next week or so.
I'm also sending you a DM with another idea
Thanks for the tips!
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You've got plenty of time to study POFA and prepare your POPLA appeal - until 19 February, but don't leave it till the last minute.
You've got the outline in the initial appeal that I drafted for you in Reply #10. You just need to flesh it out a little and change the language to reflect that you are now writing to POPLA rather than the parking company.
If you'd like our advice before sending it off to POPLA please post the draft here (without revealing the POPLA code or any other confidential details) in the next week or so.
I'm also sending you a DM with another idea
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Read the letter. All information regarding how to appeal is given on the POPLA website which you should now view...popla.org.uk
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Your initial appeal rejection letter should include a POPLA code. The code lasts 28 days (32 days in reality) and you need this code in order to be able to appeal to POPLA.
This is known as Plan C. (Plan A - compliant to the store/landowner/MP etc. Plan B - appeal to the PPC, Plan D - get a court claim and have a judge decide if you owe any alleged debt)
I will have a look later and try and find some similar POPLA appeals you can adapt.
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A POPLA decision is not binding. You now need to wait until if/when the PPC decides to make a county court claim for the alleged debt.
Ignore everything except an LoC/LBC or an actual claim and then come back.
He's not had a POPLA decision yet, just a rejection from the parking company!
Time to start writing your POPLA appeal.
Do you know by when I would need to submit the appeal? Any help with wording would be much appreciated. Thanks
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A POPLA decision is not binding. You now need to wait until if/when the PPC decides to make a county court claim for the alleged debt.
Ignore everything except an LoC/LBC or an actual claim and then come back.
He's not had a POPLA decision yet, just a rejection from the parking company!
Time to start writing your POPLA appeal.
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A POPLA decision is not binding. You now need to wait until if/when the PPC decides to make a county court claim for the alleged debt.
Ignore everything except an LoC/LBC or an actual claim and then come back.
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Apologies for the mix-ups and thanks for the tough love :-). They've declined my appeal. Please see attached. Thanks
(https://i.postimg.cc/LgB0N9K1/Scanned-Document-2024-01-27-at-21-58-43.png) (https://postimg.cc/LgB0N9K1)
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@challenge_cheaters, if you don't redact the PCN number and the POPLA code, anyone can log in as you and screw you very badly. This PCN is easily defeated at POPLA if you follow the guidance that you will receive... as long as someone hasn't logged in with your details and done the damage.
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Enough is enough! Time for some tough love. If you want any more advice, delete that rejection notice showing your wife’s name, the PCN number and POPLA code and try again …
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Thank you all for your help thus far. Wow this company is relentless! They've rejected the appeal-the discounted payment rate expires on 01 February. Please can you help.
Thanks
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This time you've published your wife's name! Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post.
Have removed for the OP.
This time you've published your wife's name! Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post. Your wife can now lodge an appeal within the 28 day deadline and get the charge cancelled:
I appeal as hirer. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.
Your purported notice to hirer is not effective to transfer the driver's liability (if any) to me because you have not complied with the mandatory provisions for notices to hirers set out in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA").
In particular (and without limitation):
[1. You did not comply with the condition set out in sub-paragraph 14.(2)(a) POFA to include with the PCN a copy of the documents mentioned in POFA paragraph 13(2) and the relevant notice to keeper;]*
2. You did not specifically reference paragraph 14.(5) POFA in the PCN as required by sub-paragraph 14.(5)(a);
3. You did not include in the PCN all the information required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(b);
4. You did not include in the PCN the warning required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(c);
Any one of the above failures to comply with POFA is alone sufficient to prevent transfer of liability to me as hirer and I therefore requires you to cancel the charge or to issue a POPLA code so that POPLA can order you to cancel it.
* Delete 1 and renumber if the required documents were enclosed for a change (I have never seen a case in which this happened). The other POFA failures are sufficient anyway
Many Thanks - Will ensure I'll post when I'm a little less tired.
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This time you've published your wife's name! Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post.
Have removed for the OP.
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This time you've published your wife's name! Please delete the uploaded document, redact it properly and re-post. Your wife can now lodge an appeal within the 28 day deadline and get the charge cancelled:
I appeal as hirer. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so.
Your purported notice to hirer is not effective to transfer the driver's liability (if any) to me because you have not complied with the mandatory provisions for notices to hirers set out in Paragraph 14 of Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA").
In particular (and without limitation):
[1. You did not comply with the condition set out in sub-paragraph 14.(2)(a) POFA to include with the PCN a copy of the documents mentioned in POFA paragraph 13(2) and the relevant notice to keeper;]*
2. You did not specifically reference paragraph 14.(5) POFA in the PCN as required by sub-paragraph 14.(5)(a);
3. You did not include in the PCN all the information required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(b);
4. You did not include in the PCN the warning required to be included pursuant to POFA sub-paragraph 14.(5)(c);
Any one of the above failures to comply with POFA is alone sufficient to prevent transfer of liability to me as hirer and I therefore requires you to cancel the charge or to issue a POPLA code so that POPLA can order you to cancel it.
* Delete 1 and renumber if the required documents were enclosed for a change (I have never seen a case in which this happened). The other POFA failures are sufficient anyway
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They responded with a Notice to owner in her name (attached). Can they do that (as they hadn't originally followed the process properly)?
For clarity, it isn't a Notice to Owner, after all, it is a hired vehicle. They can, insofar as they can mostly do what they like with it being a largely unregulated industry - but importantly, that doesn't mean that your wife is now liable for the charge.
Did they send any additional documents with this new notice (such as a copy of your hire agreement), or is the attached all they sent?
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OP, Apart from the gaffe pointed out in by DWMB2 in the previous post, you've left full details of the PCN reference number and vehicle registration in the copy of the reminder that you posted. You should fix these mistakes ASAP.
If I've understood correctly the individual who is the hirer was not the driver and also didn't receive a notice to hirer. On that basis, the hirer should write to the parking company along the following lines.
Dear Sirs
PCN [ ] RE Vehicle number [ ]
I write in response to your purported "final reminder."
I am the hirer of the vehicle but I was not the driver at the time of the alleged parking event. Therefore, you have no legal claim against me as driver. As you failed to deliver to me a "notice to hirer" that conforms to the requirements for a notice to hirer in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, you have no legal claim against me as hirer.
I require you therefore, to cease communicating with me concerning this parking charge and to erase my personal information from your database.
Yours faithfully,
Many Thanks for the template. My wife adjusted and sent it to them. They responded with a Notice to owner in her name (attached). Can they do that (as they hadn't originally followed the process properly)? Please could you advise of next steps. Cheers
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I've removed the attachment with the vehicle details and reference number showing, and removed the identification of the driver from the reply in question for you.
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Hi there,
We have a contract hire where the parking ticket was sent to the owners i.e. Volkswagen. Volkswagen gave the Parking operators our name but they seemed to have sent solely a Final reminder addressed in our name. It doesn't seem like they followed due process by sending an initial PCN.
Please can you help. The final reminder was sent on the 14th December and they have given us 14 days to pay (till the 28th December)
[attachment deleted by admin]
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OP, Apart from the gaffe pointed out in by DWMB2 in the previous post, you've left full details of the PCN reference number and vehicle registration in the copy of the reminder that you posted. You should fix these mistakes ASAP.
If I've understood correctly the individual who is the hirer was not the driver and also didn't receive a notice to hirer. On that basis, the hirer should write to the parking company along the following lines.
Dear Sirs
PCN [ ] RE Vehicle number [ ]
I write in response to your purported "final reminder."
I am the hirer of the vehicle but I was not the driver at the time of the alleged parking event. Therefore, you have no legal claim against me as driver. As you failed to deliver to me a "notice to hirer" that conforms to the requirements for a notice to hirer in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, you have no legal claim against me as hirer.
I require you therefore, to cease communicating with me concerning this parking charge and to erase my personal information from your database.
Yours faithfully,
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(without telling us who was driving).
You may wish to amend your previous post based on this
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My son had a football match and I parked in a big car park that I thought was linked to football parking but apparently belongs to players who use the golf park.
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The individual is my wife
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I note you mention 'we' and 'our' - does this refer to a company? If not, then I assume the hirer of the vehicle is one named individual, if so is that you?
We'll need some more information about the parking incident in question (without telling us who was driving).
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Hi there,
We have a contract hire where the parking ticket was sent to the owners i.e. Volkswagen. Volkswagen gave the Parking operators our name but they seemed to have sent solely a Final reminder addressed in our name. It doesn't seem like they followed due process by sending an initial PCN.
Please can you help. The final reminder was sent on the 14th December and they have given us 14 days to pay (till the 28th December)