Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: bricemanuk on July 01, 2026, 04:27:40 pm
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Can't read your case.You need to set it to 'Public'
Fixed.
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Can't read your case.You need to set it to 'Public'
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Decision received — appeal dismissed.
It's funny that the adjudicator's reasons didn't address my main argument at all: although I stopped in the box, I didn't have to stop due to stationary vehicles, because there was sufficient space ahead for me to continue moving slowly.
The appeal was a joke, really.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e6-nJCLAa-VlxXSQ97uVZ7lXS4ZoxDGr/view?usp=sharing
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I've also got the reply from FOI regarding oversized box which council explained it's swept path. I'm not sure if this would help or not.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AdYYBcw2RYEecDwg5WTZVl5zFou3aGXy/view?usp=drive_link
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LsltfmRpbUez85GStzMqkf9WxrscK4BD/view?usp=drive_link
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I've attached their Authority Summary.
Where?
Yes, let's see what they have said.
Sounds like they've quoted the highway code which, for box junctions, is notoriously an oversimplification of the actual rules.
Please see the link.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1b_3R9_g3GoPYZBBPSY_0nMFd0IG-V6kB/view?usp=sharing
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Yes, let's see what they have said.
Sounds like they've quoted the highway code which, for box junctions, is notoriously an oversimplification of the actual rules.
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I've attached their Authority Summary.
Where?
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I think it's arguable that no offence committed.
It's only an offence to have to stop due to stationary vehicles. Looks like you are slightly manoeuvring towards the second lane and the vehicle in front of you in that lane doesn't stop moving until 19 seconds into the video.
You start moving at 22 seconds but there's a significant gap between you so you could have started moving again just as the other car comes to a stop and made it through without having to stop again.
Hello again. Thank you for your earlier advice.
I've now received the Council's evidence pack. Rather than addressing the CCTV timing point, they argue that the issue is not the gap to the vehicle ahead but whether there was sufficient space beyond the box to accommodate my vehicle when I entered.
I've attached their Authority Summary. I'd be grateful for your thoughts on whether this changes your previous view of the case.
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Thanks, that’s helpful. I raised that point with the Council, but they said the area forms part of the “swept path”. I’ve submitted an EIR request asking for the engineering documents.
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The "sweep" for the end of the box is open to interpretation, but the box starts before the kerbing stops & indeed before the actual traffic lights.
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Thanks. That’s actually the point I’ve been questioning as well. Trafford Council says the area where I stopped forms part of the “swept path”, but they haven’t provided any engineering evidence to support that. I’ve submitted an EIR request to ask for the design documents.
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I'm far from an expert, but isn't the box itself oversized? It extends both before and after the junction of the road to the left. My understanding is that a box that extends beyond the width of the junction is incorrectly marked & therefore unenforceable.
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Any other thoughts on this? I’d really appreciate any advice before I take it to Tribunal. Thanks.
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Thanks, that's an interesting point. My intention was to avoid blocking the exit once I realised the traffic ahead had slowed. I hadn't looked at it from that angle before. Do you think that's a point an adjudicator would be likely to accept?
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I think it's arguable that no offence committed.
It's only an offence to have to stop due to stationary vehicles. Looks like you are slightly manoeuvring towards the second lane and the vehicle in front of you in that lane doesn't stop moving until 19 seconds into the video.
You start moving at 22 seconds but there's a significant gap between you so you could have started moving again just as the other car comes to a stop and made it through without having to stop again.
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The black car in the centre.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VQEBg46U5xxboksz9
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Which is your vehicle? There's a few which get stuck on the box.
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Thanks for the prompt reply. Please see the video below.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/srLrN1wFGdVUPqzHA
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Does the council make the video evidence available online? I've not dealt with Trafford council before but I'd expect it to be available assuming they have an online PCN portal you can log into.
We need to see it to check the circumstances - quite often it opens up new angles for your appeal.
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Hi all,
I'd appreciate some advice.
I received a yellow box PCN from Trafford Council. My formal representations were rejected.
My main argument is that this yellow box seems much larger than necessary. The position where my car stopped doesn't appear to block the junction or any crossing traffic.
I challenged the extent of the yellow box, and the Council replied saying that the area where my car stopped forms part of the "swept path" for vehicles exiting the junction. However, they haven't provided any engineering evidence to support that and instead told me to submit an FOI request.
I've attached:
Google Maps showing the junction.
The Council's CCTV image showing where my car stopped.
The Council's latest reply mentioning the "swept path".
Do you think I have reasonable grounds to take this to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal? Has anyone dealt with a similar argument about the size or extent of a yellow box?
Thanks in advance.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/JzHj5psAHWUwXPsz7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/vJzW67k77x21DrUa8
https://photos.app.goo.gl/VQEBg46U5xxboksz9