Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Phaeton55 on December 19, 2023, 12:33:38 pm
-
[CASE CLOSED]
PCN KL01906797
XXXX, the authority has not contested your appeal, and you are not liable to pay the penalty charge.
There is nothing to pay and the authority will cancel the penalty charge
This is because the authority did not contest your appeal.
The authority's reasons for not contesting the case are:
The correct that procedure has not been followed
------
Thanks everyone!
-
@Phaeton55 the notice to owner was issued on 30 May 2024 and is deemed served on 3 June, so to meet the statutory deadline the representations needed to be received by the council no later than 30 June 2024. If you decided to send the representations by post on 29 June then this deadline was never going to be met: representations could and should have been made online at https://payment.medway.gov.uk/public/Pcn/lookup (you can usually upload attachments and even if you couldn't, at least you wouldn't have lost the right to appeal to the tribunal).
The council is entitled to disregard representations received after the end of the 28 day period, so unfortunately you have no right of appeal and the only thing you can do is pay the Order for Recovery before any bailiff fees get added.
Why on Earth in 2024 people insist on sending letters by post is completely beyond me (especially considering that everything is scanned into the council computer and shredded anyway, so you might as well upload everything into the council computer yourself)
You're not the first person to shoot themselves in the foot by doing this and I fear you won't be the last.
I'm really sorry there's nothing more we can do to help you, but it's better to spell out what's what rather than giving you false hope.
The really frustrating thing is that I found out today from Kent County Council that they can't find a copy of the traffic order, so if we'd got this to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal it would have been a really easy win.
-
After getting nowhere with the Council on the timings issue of the appeal its now at Order for Recovery Stage.
https://ibb.co/N3zF1H7
https://ibb.co/LdK55Yv
Ideally I want to get this PCN to the adjudicators, any input would be much appreciated
-
Hi there some help needed in terms of the date time lines re appealing the latest NTO and how to take this to an adjudicator or ombudsman.
NTO : https://jumpshare.com/s/sna1DUOkdUCXBv3lnU3i
Sent in a postal appeal to the latest NTO (as it included a copy of a passport) Representations posted on the 29.06.24 at main post office. The council acknowledged to have received this on 04.07.24.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cSG5YG0R5N16skvIUNMPTiW3qP0JmDFQhCKnjdBl-Ec/edit?usp=sharing
On the same date a charge certificate was issued:
https://i.ibb.co/gd8h0y8/charge-certificate-04-07-2024.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Ns96jSZ/charge-certificate-04-07-2024-back.jpg
The council replied to the representations letter posted 29.06.24
https://i.ibb.co/D7wbVJY/Reply-challenge-nto-front.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/wBRM326/Reply-challenge-nto-back.jpg
Following the receipt of this letter I called the Council on 16.07.2024 and couldn't speak directly to the Parking team.
The receptionist was told by Parking Services, that because the PCN had been reset from TEC, and reverted back to the NTO stage there was no option to make formal representations its only a request to pay the PCN --- which is strange imo .
The only option was to pay the PCN within 35 days from the postal date of the NTO and ....July 4th as the deadline
The receptionist kept going backwards and forwards and in the end I was told to write another email to outline the case as I would like clarification on the the dates but following this last question I was then told she couldn't get hold of the team ….
Email response : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EyEFGYXl3r2wnKfHPkw-nObq_Ur1Xrf62EVgvWX0qZk/edit?usp=sharing
The council replied to this email via the post on 24.07.24 :
https://i.ibb.co/GvLYgc7/charge-certificate-challenge.jpg
Please let me know your thoughts on this and what further steps are still possible at this stage.
-
@Phaeton55 the deadline to make formal representations is tomorrow, so we have 24 hours or so to put something compelling together.
Council photos:
(https://i.imgur.com/wRZyeX3.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lQM4n0Y.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qpt7urr.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CCWJbT1.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jp0dqIc.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BwaQvNk.jpeg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Q0K9Ay0.jpeg)
Traffic order: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_0F-dgXqamEQo1QnVcNbYgSGHFYLAxo0/view
Map tile: https://store.traffweb.app/kent/documents/parkmap/msched/BN101_rv0_2.pdf
I think you need mum to provide a first-person narrative of events, as that would amount to mitigation which might prove compelling, or at a stretch we could invoke the exemption at article 33(k)(iii) of the traffic order. Also, can you get some screenshots of the call logs to confirm when grandad made the call? Lastly where was the car moved to?
We can still throw in the procedural impropriety ground but I'm minded to say that this should be done by simply inviting the authority to reconsider the informal representations afresh.
-
First time the missus was out for a couple of hours, grandad baby sitting the baby.
Baby was being fed by mum. Grandad couldnt settle the baby when she woke up with the supplied milk and was hungry and screamed her lungs out.
Grandad calls Mum to come back (1mile drive). As usual no parking in our street. Quickly parks it in front of the house of the neighbour and feeds the baby.
As soon as settled she moved the car.
-
09/12/23
Wife had to come back to feed our 5-month-old as was in a state of distress
Let's start with the basic facts, why was she in a state of distress?
-
Case has been reset to NTO and received full pack of documents
Take it make an appeal again that the PCN wording is not complying and ignored during the informal stage?
Many thanks for your input
https://ibb.co/BnLCP8c
https://ibb.co/yFCfzQx
https://ibb.co/x841HWV
Full NTO : https://jmp.sh/s/sna1DUOkdUCXBv3lnU3i
-
Trigger-happy Stewards of the Bar.
-
Just pulled this CC out of the post after a few days away from home.
Never received a NTO regarding this matter.
I take it wait till the charge is registered and go from there to get it back to NTO ?
Yes, don't wait for the Order for Recovery to come in the post, call the traffic enforcement centre on Tuesday to check if the debt has been registered and if not, repeat once every 10 days until it is.
Once it's registered you can fill in form TE9 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1094491/Parking_TE9.pdf (no need to print as they accept a typed signature) and email it to tec@justice.gov.uk
Don't forget the applicant is the council, not you, and put the PCN number in the email's subject line.
-
Just pulled this CC out of the post after a few days away from home.
Never received a NTO regarding this matter.
I take it wait till the charge is registered and go from there to get it back to NTO ?
Many thanks for your input.
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Yes indeed. I am sure that Schofeldt or I will deal with this one for you. :D
-
As expected the informal appeal was rejected and didn't address the procedural impropriety.
Guess waiting for the NTO to make a formal challenge
(https://i.ibb.co/VpNgZ8P/informal-rejected-05-01-24.jpg)
-
You need to include the procedural impropriety now as well. If this goes to the TPT, this will be a major factor.
Last year I helped a lady in Kent who parked, did not raise the issue of P.I. and was extremely lucky to have got off the PCN. In that case, only mitigation was put forward as a defence. So, the moral of the story is to put everything in form the start. And they must consider an allegation of P.I.
-
Thanks,
The best thing to do is make informal reps now still on mitigating grounds and request discretion from the council to cancel the PCN?
Most likely they will decline and then mention this flaw on the PCN or make informal reps on both grounds right away?
-
Yes, you are right, the PCN is flawed as it omits this: -
©that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.
This is a very important piece of information, because it advises the appellant that if he has submitted representations, and an NtO turns up without him getting a reply to his reps, that he must submit those reps again against the Notice to Owner. People have, in the past, received an NtO, and have ignored it because they think they have already submitted representations.
Having said all this, will an adjudicator accept this is a major error in the PCN and therefore a procedurual improproriety ? He should do because the information is mandatory and is nowhere on your PCN.
Don't expect the council to give way, as most of their staff are entirely ignorant of the law they purport to enforce, and rely on "computer says no/yes" !
-
I am sorry here we go:
(https://i.ibb.co/xJP2XNG/Photo-Scan.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/mNfWLC2/Photo-Scan-2.jpg)
-
You have yet to post the PCN, so obviously we have not been able to comment on it. So before you fold and pay-up, let us see it.
-
Most of the penalties that we got in the past for cancelled as soon as we mentioned the mandatory information.
They would simply ignore it in the appeal and then PCN got cancelled.
Would it be worth a try once again?
-----------------------
The PCN is missing mandatory information as follows:
Information to be included in regulation 9 penalty charge notices and enforcement notices
3.—(1) A regulation 9 penalty charge notice must include the following information—
(a)that a person on whom a notice to owner is served may, in accordance with these Regulations, make representations to the enforcement authority against the penalty charge and, if those representations are rejected, appeal to an adjudicator;
(b)that if, before a notice to owner is served, representations against the penalty charge are received at such address as may be specified in the notice for the purpose those representations will be considered by the enforcement authority;
©that if a notice to owner is served despite the representations mentioned in sub-paragraph (b), representations against the penalty charge must be made to the enforcement authority in the form and manner and at the time specified in the notice to owner.
3(1) is there, but I cannot see 3(2) and 3(3).
This is a procedural impropriety and a winning, albeit technical, argument and grounds by itself.
-
Unfortunately there are no grounds whatever in terms of the contravention itself, the car was on the double-yellow lines, no ifs or buts. Your only argument as far as I can see from your narrative is mitigation based on your wife returning to feed the infant. However the car was still there way after that when the CEAO came round, so you'd have to explain that away somehow. Yes, parking in narrow streets with no off-street parking can be a pain in the ass. You really want the double-yellows removing and if the garage gets blocked, you could request the council ticket that vehicle for blocking a dropped kerb. Councils should only ticket cars that the driveway owner complains about.
At the moment, the only permission your neighbour can give is to allow you to park on the concrete approach, but not the pavement, because the double-yellow lines apply to that as well. I suspect your car won't fit into that space.
-
Good afternoon,
Misuss parked the car in our street on double yellow in front of a dropped curb and garage.
We have permission from the owner to park in front of the garage.
09/12/23
Wife had to come back to feed our 5-month-old as was in a state of distress, as per usual no parking spaces in the street or near our house at this time of the night (as the permits are not required after 6pm)
CEO comes round (way after 6pm) @ 20:45 goes around the block twice in his car and slaps the ticket on at 20.51.
Location
https://maps.app.goo.gl/TNM2zK2X9VL65B237
PCN Photos
https://pcn.swale.gov.uk/ GV68 WRX - KL01906797
(https://i.ibb.co/xJP2XNG/Photo-Scan.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/mNfWLC2/Photo-Scan-2.jpg)
Let me know what grounds there are to make an informal appeal, any input is much appreciated as always