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Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: Markfryer1985 on June 17, 2026, 08:30:56 pm

Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on July 17, 2026, 09:27:13 pm
I must have called 6 odd solicitors , prices ranged from £1500 to £3000 all plus vat and wanted more if it went to trial. But I called one and she was the only one that mentioned legal aid because I’m on universal credits with my wife ( I’m self employed builder and she raises kids at home ) so in the end it didn’t cost me anything
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: JoCo on July 17, 2026, 12:54:04 pm
Out of curiosity, how much was the solicitor?
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on July 16, 2026, 07:46:06 pm
Thanks for letting us know.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on July 16, 2026, 03:09:53 pm
Update - was in court this morning.
Met with solicitor in meeting area. Agreed we were pleading not guilty due to late NIP , she said she had to inform the prosecution, came back 30mins later saying is been thrown out. Didn’t even get into the court room. All finished because of the NIP.

Just wanted to put it on here incase anyone goes thru a similar situation.

Made me ill over last few weeks, lesson definitely learned , don’t ever want to be in that situation again.

Thanks to anyone that gave me assistance on this forum.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Southpaw82 on July 12, 2026, 07:49:52 pm
Running that defence in the face of a dangerous driving charge is a no brainer.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on July 12, 2026, 06:50:50 pm
Yes, I don’t see why the police could not have issued a NIP as soon as the report was made to them (or a least very soon afterwards and certainly so that it was served within 14 days).

The argument the police are using should not succeed. They had a report made immediately after the alleged offence occurred. They had no reason to doubt its reliability. They had no need of proof that the offence occurred to issue a NIP. They could have obtained the Registered Keeper’s details immediately. They had no reason to require footage and, in any case, there may not even have been any. What then? They don’t bother to pursue what, on the face of it, seems to be quite a serious transgression?

The police issue NIPs for reports of minor collisions with stationary vehicles in supermarket car parks. There is often no footage and all they have to go on is an allegation that one vehicle struck another.

It seems to me they have made a prize balls up.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: andy_foster on July 12, 2026, 05:15:43 pm
There is an exception to the requirement to serve a NIP where the RK's details could not have been ascertained with reasonable diligence in time to serve a NIP within the 14 days.

There is an argument where a complaint is made to the police too late to issue a compliant NIP that this exception would apply - I believe that the test of reasonable diligence is applied to the police, not to the person reporting it late - but that is immaterial to your case.

Assuming the the person reporting the incident provided the correct VRM, it is difficult to see why it would be necessary to wait for the footage before issuing a NIP.

In my experience, most current 'loopholes' are caused by the arrogance of the police - in this case it would seem to be a policy of "we can get away without serving a compliant NIP if the footage arrives too late" - which is not what the law says.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on July 12, 2026, 04:54:25 pm
Hello, sorry I’ve been quiet I’ve gotten myself a solicitor and abit more info, the solicitor requested the case from the police and this is what has happened:

Someone witnessed me go the wrong way on the slip road and rang 999 and gave them my registration. The police asked them for footage and because they were driving a company car they couldn’t get the dash cam footage until the 20/12 which is when the police sent out the NIP , 21 days after the offence.

My solicitor has said I have a defence as there was nothing to stop the police sending the NIP out on the day it was reported to them.

Anyone had anything like this before? Thanks
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on June 21, 2026, 08:11:58 pm
Quote
As I can recall it is not possible to issue "Single Justice Procedure Notice" for offence like dangerous driving….

You are right but for the wrong reason.

The principal criteria which make an offence triable under the “Single Justice” procedure are that it must be a summary offence and not punishable with imprisonment,

Dangerous driving fails on both counts. It is an “either way” offence (meaning it can be dealt with either in the Magistrates’  Court or the Crown Court) and it is punishable by up to two years imprisonment.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Daim456 on June 21, 2026, 06:47:01 pm
As I can recall it is not possible to issue "Single Justice Procedure Notice" for offence like dangerous driving because it carries a mandatory driving ban with extended retest.

It would be have to be heard in standard Magistrate Court.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on June 19, 2026, 11:43:10 am

To avoid any further confusion (and us having to ask more questions) could you post up here what you have received (suitably redacted).

As far as the NIP goes, you need to find out whether the one you had was the first one sent to you. If it was, you know that it does not meet the requirement (to serve one within 14 days) and you can move on to try to find out why it was so late (so as to establish whether the police had a good reason to fail to meet that requirement).

If there  was an earlier one, there is virtually no chance of you convincing a court that it failed to arrive in time. Seems tough but that’s the way it is. The police only have to show that one was posted. The burden then shifts to you to show it was not delivered, and it is notoriously difficult to prove that something didn’t happen.

The only evidence you have of that is your own testimony and courts are prone to be a little sceptical when defendants try to avoid a prosecution on that basis.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: andy_foster on June 19, 2026, 08:40:49 am
I'm not going to risk going to prison for practicing unlicensed dentistry. I would strongly suggest that you answer the questions we've already asked you, before you ask us any more questions.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: 666 on June 19, 2026, 07:04:53 am
Hi, ok. I’ve seen or recived zero evidence on what I have done. How would I go about obtaining this? Do I ring the police where the NIP was issued from? I’ve been told that if it was a reminder that it would say so on the NIP? How can I prove I didn’t get another one through the post? Surly the police would have to prove that they sent one?
Again sorry for all the questions but this is all completely new to me.
What exactly have you received? You say "a letter for a court summons". Is it actually a summons? Or a letter telling you something about a summons? Or a Single Justice Procedure Notice? We need to know, if you want meaningful advice.

As regards the NIP, no, it wouldn't necessarily be labelled as a reminder.

"How can I prove I didn’t get another one through the post?" It is very difficult to do so. If you go to court, the police will provide evidence that the NIP was posted  on date x, and the law presumes it was delivered two working days later, unless it can be proved otherwise. The onus will be on you to provide convincing evidence of non-delivery. Simply saying you didn't get it is not likely to be convincing.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 19, 2026, 06:10:48 am
Hi, ok. I’ve seen or recived zero evidence on what I have done. How would I go about obtaining this? Do I ring the police where the NIP was issued from? I’ve been told that if it was a reminder that it would say so on the NIP? How can I prove I didn’t get another one through the post? Surly the police would have to prove that they sent one?
Again sorry for all the questions but this is all completely new to me.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on June 18, 2026, 11:15:36 pm
Quote
Wasn’t a reminder it was the first one I got,

It may have been he first one you got. But you don’t know whether it was the first one which was  sent.

It is important because from what you have said, your only chance of avoiding a conviction is to show that no NIP was served on you within 14 days.

As above, it is extremely rare for a genuine “late NIP” to be served. So you must make every effort to determine whether the one you have received was the first one issued. You should have been served with the evidence the police intend to rely on to convict you and that should contain some reference to the NIP, the accompanying request for driver’s details and your response.

If you don’t already have that, it would be a good place to start.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: FuzzyDuck on June 18, 2026, 10:46:50 pm
Wasn’t a reminder it was the first one I got,
It could be a reminder AND the first one you got. What if the first one sent was lost in the post?
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 18, 2026, 09:49:43 pm
Is says vehicle acquired on 20 06 2025
Bottom of page 2 is a load of numbers:
5172 678 0287
1940/1011645020
21/06/25
25

Received NIP letter on 23/12
Date on the letter was 20/12
Wasn’t a reminder it was the first one I got,
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 18, 2026, 09:47:34 pm
I’m sorry I’m new to all this. I don’t know where the docref is , I know you said bottom of page 2 but I don’t know what it is
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: andy_foster on June 18, 2026, 03:16:18 pm
Hey all, this is the story:

This isn't Jackanory. We'd rather hear the relevant facts.

Quote
27/11/2025 - I went the wrong way down a slip road, traffic was stationary. Not proud of it, bit of an idiot moment but I followed the person in front that did it.

20/12/2025 - received a NIP through the post, filled it in and sent it back the same day

Didn’t hear a thing , and then:

17/06/2026 - received a letter for a court summons

Just want some advise please if anyone had anything similar, the NIP took around 21 days to get to me, I’ve read it should be within 14 days?

Incident date 26/11/2025
Date printed on the NIP 20/12/2025

So, you received the NIP through the post on the same day as it was printed (and presumably posted), and you want people to give up their free time to help you with a technical defence that relies on details?

And you are variously unable or unwilling to provide the date after the DocRef. No. on the V5C that you definitely physically have and which definitely has your correct and current details.

Quote
And I’ve heard that’s classed as a procedural case and I still have to go to court and argue it. But I’ve shopped around and solicitors want £2k minimum to do it.

IMHO a bargain.

Quote
Would appreciate any help, I know I was a twat for doing it but it’s done and just trying to deal with this now.

We don't care what you did or didn't do to get yourself in trouble in the first place. What we do care about is whether or not you act like a twat here.

And wtf is "a letter for a summons"?
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: BertB on June 18, 2026, 11:02:49 am
4. What is he “docref” date (at the bottom of page 2, I believe).

And this bit?

The reason for the scrutiny is we are told it is virtually impossible for the 'system' to issue an NIP out of time. There is also of course the general state of the postal system these days (and particularly it being a busy time of the year of for the post office).

But there is the possibility that on the 20th December an automatic reminder was sent as 21 days had lapsed without a response. You have 28 days but you do see reminders being received before that has elapsed.

Often the process of identification is described in the statement, along the lines of "A S.172 request was sent on X date requesting driver details" If no response was received it will mention a reminder was sent on XX date.

Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 18, 2026, 10:21:52 am
I received the NIP on 23rd dec as it was the day I broke up work for Xmas I remember. The date printed on the NIP was 20/12. I still have a screen shot of it. Court summons mentions nothing of a witness statement etc. checked physical vc5 log book all up to date with correct name and address
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on June 18, 2026, 10:14:48 am
Four questions:

1. Do you have the V5C in your possession?
2. Have you looked at it since being notified of this incident?
3. Does it show your name and address correct in every detail?
4. What is he “docref” date (at the bottom of page 2, I believe).
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: BertB on June 18, 2026, 09:50:49 am
So you received the NIP the same day it was posted? Which seems to be more than 21 days.

What does the summons say with regards to the charge. They will often include a statement that will contain the description of the process they took to obtain the driver details.
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 18, 2026, 06:35:56 am
Incident date 26/11/2025
Date printed on the NIP 20/12/2025
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: NewJudge on June 17, 2026, 11:16:34 pm
If you are convicted the offence carries a mandatory minimum 12 month disqualification followed by an extended retest. It can also carry a custodial sentence of up to wo years. Custody is unlikely from your description of the events but a Community Order very likely.

What was the date of the NIP?
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 17, 2026, 11:03:50 pm
Hi, no wasn’t stopped, went down slip road and rejoined roundabout and carried out ( instantly regretted it but is what it is now ) yes I am registered keeper, everything up to date on dvla and physic log book
Title: Re: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: 666 on June 17, 2026, 10:11:26 pm
OP, presumably you were stopped by the police at the time, and warned that you would be reported? If so, no NIP is required and so its "late" arrival is no defence.

If not, are you the Registered Keeper, and were the details on your V5C correct?
Title: Dangerous driving - court summons advise
Post by: Markfryer1985 on June 17, 2026, 08:30:56 pm
Hey all, this is the story:

27/11/2025 - I went the wrong way down a slip road, traffic was stationary. Not proud of it, bit of an idiot moment but I followed the person in front that did it.

20/12/2025 - received a NIP through the post, filled it in and sent it back the same day

Didn’t hear a thing , and then:

17/06/2026 - received a letter for a court summons

Just want some advise please if anyone had anything similar, the NIP took around 21 days to get to me, I’ve read it should be within 14 days?

And I’ve heard that’s classed as a procedural case and I still have to go to court and argue it. But I’ve shopped around and solicitors want £2k minimum to do it.

Would appreciate any help, I know I was a twat for doing it but it’s done and just trying to deal with this now.

Many thanks