Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Iolanthe on June 08, 2026, 04:23:06 pm
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Agreed. Now you can spread the message about this site and, by dint of your experience here and your first-hand knowledge, of the problems that can follow in the wake of not keeping DVLA info current!
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Well done !!
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Both fines have been cancelled: two out of two with Brum cc. I'm in the clear now as no others outstanding. They're out of order for having rejected my first appeal, made directly to them. Shysters. Again thanks to all who've helped with this, it's greatly appreciated.
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Good point - which one was cancelled? Taxi rank or ULEZ?
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It's common not to contest when they look at things properly as it costs them a fee to do so.
But you have two PCNs - is this just for one.
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Update just in: TFT have added another message to my appeal.
"MR ROBERT COCOZZA, the authority has not contested your appeal, and you are not liable to pay the penalty charge."
This was without me having adding anything to my original appeal yet, which they rejected. How utterly bizarre, incompetent, and welcome!
Many thanks to all who have helped me in this one. Really useful and reassuring.
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That response from TPT wasn't a rejection - at least not how I read it. It was default information to manage your expectations as an appellant relying on the defence that you sold the vehicle before the offence occurred (while still being listed as the registered keeper) as to what supporting evidence and information they will be seeking.
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So far, I've appealed against the fines to Brum city council; they rejected my appeal, and in so doing pointed me to TFT as a last line of recourse. Their online response in rejecting it was that which I posted above. It read like a a cut and paste job and hadn't considered my evidence - it's clear from that that I didn't have the car when the offences were committed. Just them and Brum council. Leeds Council and a parking firm accepted my explanations and evidence first time.
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See posts 5 and 6 above. OP has confirmed that actually there has been no decision from TPT, all she's had is the auto reply to her appeal submission.
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There is confusion - the opening post indicates the cases have gone to adjudication and been refused?
If so we need to see the decisions.
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There are text messages between us that agree the price, and the bank transfer of that amount from his account to mine on the day he picked it up.
The test for an adjudication is "on the balance of probabilities", and you have evidence of the sale in the form of the text messages, plus the call to DVLA so I cannot see how TPT can refuse to adjudicate on this.
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Do you have any sort of emails from the comparison site which would support the fact you used it? Every little helps build credibility.
Absolutely include the text messages and bank statement.
Evidence of calling DVLA is also indicative that you were looking to be proactive on this.
Any evidence in respect of posting first class to DVLA? Post office receipt or transaction for the stamp? Googlemaps journey history showing you going to the post office or post box that day?
I'd also include the backstory (and some concise evidence) around the vehicle being stolen and returned to you for scrap to add colour and further credibility to the situation.
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Many thanks for this detail. I'll respond to TFT in those terms.
Sadly, I'm missing a "bill of sale" as such. I put it in a scrap merchant comparison website, someone called me, and we arranged the sale from there. There are text messages between us that agree the price, and the bank transfer of that amount from his account to mine on the day he picked it up.
I do have record of a call I made to DVLA shortly after, (during which they told me to write to them about the change of ownership, which I did - but not by recorded delivery; by first class post. That should be enough, I'd have thought?)
After all, a private car park operator and Leeds City Council both exonerated me from the fines they'd imposed on me for other offences committed after the sale. Is there any weight of precedent in that?
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It's your use of terms which might confuse them.
You are claiming a statutory defence (not mitigation) of: I was not the owner at the time of the contraventions. TPT's response to you isn't helpful because who legally owns the vehicle is not determinative, the issue is 'by whom is the vehicle kept'.
I suggest something along these lines:
As the adjudicator will know, 'owner' is the person by whom a vehicle is kept and this is presumed to be the registered keeper unless the contrary can be proved.
On ***, I neither legally owned the vehicle nor was it kept by me as I transferred title to **** by way of an arm's length bona fide sale on *** for the sum of *****. *****(insert the person or company to whom you sold the vehicle) took possession of the vehicle on **** and I relinquished my role as keeper at that time.
That ****(the person) has accrued numerous penalty charges and private parking charges(some of which have been cancelled on presentation of exactly the defence set out here) was beyond my control and, I submit, something for which I may not be held liable. I apologise for my naivete in not notifying DVLA to remove my name from the registered keepers' list, I was misled by the buyer on this but I have now taken my name off the register.
My attached evidence comprises:
Bank statement;
Bill of Sale;
Notification to DVLA of cancelled VED;
Correspondence with insurance company;
Personal details of the person to whom you sold the vehicle.
DVLA correspondence;
....and?
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I was just going to respond on the TFT website, as it states there that I can. I'd rather do it in person though, if I could. I'll read through TFT again in the morning...
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Are you going to be present at your appeal? This sounds like a case where you definitely want to attend to be able to get across your credibility rather than let an adjudicator decide it based only on the papers.
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Many thanks, that's very encouraging. I'll do as you suggest and will post the upshot on here once it's decided.
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Ah right.
That's just a standard automated response from TPT to try and weed out people who are trying to pull a fast one to try and swerve a PCN.
Based on the circumstances you have outlined you are not legally liable and have a solid defence. You just need to pull together as much evidence as you can to back up your version of events and present that to TPT.
Include the details about your car being written off, any evidence of the sale (receipts/bank statements), details of your interactions with DVLA. And include whatever documentary evidence you have to go with it.
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Ah no, that's the first response from them. First I appealed to Brum City council, who rejected it and told me my last line of recourse is to TFT. I've a couple more days to respond to their rejection that I posted above. It feels wrong of them.
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Ok, what did you do in response to that reply from TPT? You said they'd rejected your appeal so what's happened between that and the rejection? When was the rejection? Can you post the wording of the TPT decision?
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Many thanks for your time and responses. When I phoned dVLA, they didn't mention the online form you mention. The reply I got from TPT was this:
"This is a standard direction issued by the Adjudicators to all Appellants who seek to rely on the ground that they had ceased to be the owner of the vehicle on the date and at the time of the alleged contravention.
A DVLA search has confirmed that you were the registered keeper of the vehicle on the relevant date. The registered keeper [not the owner] of a vehicle is the person liable for a penalty charge. If it is your case that you sold/donated the vehicle before the relevant date and time, you must prove that you did so. The Tribunal will not contact witnesses or collect evidence on your behalf. In addition to the name and address of the purchaser/donee, you should provide the following evidence where possible/applicable:
1. The invoice/memorandum of sale.
2. Any messaging/emails/correspondence between you and the purchaser/donee regarding the sale/donation.
3. A bank statement showing payment of the purchase price and the date of payment
4. Documentation/an email from your insurance company evidencing the date of cancellation of your policy in respect of the vehicle.
If you sold the vehicle to a vehicle trader, you should confirm this and provide their name and address.
Proof of transfer of ownership before the relevant date and time is NOT sufficient on its own to transfer liability for the penalty charge. The law requires that you MUST also prove you notified DVLA of the change in ownership BEFORE the relevant date and time.
If you notified DVLA by sending the relevant part of the Registration Certificate (V5C) to DVLA by post before the relevant date and time you should say when and where it was posted and by whom. If it was sent by Recorded Delivery or Registered Post, you should provide a copy of the Post Office receipt if available.
If you notified DVLA online you should say when you did so and provide the online notification receipt."
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There's an online service for telling DVLA you've scrapped or sold a car including to the trade so I'm surprised they didn't mention this - it results in an instant email confirmation I think.
A review needs to be made within 14 days of the decision but can be longer if the delay has a reasonable cause.
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I may be wrong but I think it's the vehicle owner who is liable, i.e. the person who bought your car even if you technically were listed as the registered keeper.
Can you provide the TPT decision wording?
Edit - yes according to TPT selling the vehicle before the offence occurred is a statutory appeal ground so we'll need more information about why it didn't accept your appeal on these grounds. There's a time limit for applying for a review so please act quickly.
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I’ve appealed against two traffic offences (unpaid ULEZ, parking in a taxi rank) committed within Birmingham City Council’s (BCC) jurisdiction. The car was still registered to me as its keeper when the offences were made, although I no longer owned it and was not the driver when the offences were committed.
Both BCC and now Traffic Penalty Tribunal (TPT) have rejected my appeals against these. I understood when making my appeals that I was the registered keeper, which rendered me liable for the offences committed in it by the new driver. That I was the registered keeper was not contested in my appeals; yet was stated as the reason for rejecting them.
My appeal rested on mitigating factors that explain the car remaining registered to me after I had sold it. Neither BCC nor TPT took any of them into account when explaining their reasons to reject the appeals.
Here, as I explained to them in mitigation, is why I was still the registered keeper after selling it:
Background: The car was stolen from outside my house and then recovered by the police. Their insurance assessors classified it not economically viable to repair and marked it a Category N vehicle. They returned it to me so that I could sell it for scrap.
Other items had been stolen from it, the glove compartment had been emptied and documents in it violated, including the V5C - only its front sheet was in tact. The form to complete the transfer of ownership was discarded with other items.
I advertised it on a scrap merchant comparison website, a man called, we agreed a price and he came and towed it away to scrap – or so I thought.
The buyer reassured me about not having the transfer of ownership form; explaining that it’s not required when disposing of a vehicle, that his company knew the process well and would complete it.
There was no key to the car, the steering was locked and the windows left open since the police recovered it.
I called DVLA for advice about the transfer of ownership. They told me to write and notify them. They explained that it could take 4-6 weeks to receive and process as they had a backlog. I wrote this at once and sent it by first class post. I phoned them after four weeks and they hadn’t received it. This was in December, so I sent another letter to the same effect, also by first class post. In the new year, I called them again and they could not acknowledge receipt of either of my letters. In the meantime, I had received fines for driving offences committed in my old car.
In my appeals, I showed documentary evidence of SmS messages between me and the buyer in which we agreed a price, and the bank transaction in which he then paid me that amount.
While waiting for DVLA to process my letter/s, I reported the deceit of the buyer to the police, with the personal details for him that I had: given name, mobile phone number, bank account and sort code numbers. He could have been traced with these, but they only wanted to give me an incident reference and not record a crime.
Given that the fines were for traffic offences, and that I gave evidence of having sold the car, with the reasons for not having completed the transfer of ownership, I think that BCC and TFT have applied the letter of the law and not one whiff of its spirit. Their rejection notices refer only to the fact that I was still the registered keeper: missing the point of my appeal entirely.
I had other fines, too. Leeds city council and a private parking company BOTH EXONERATED ME from paying them after reading my appeals against them. I think BCC should have done the same, and that TPT are even worse for upholding BCC’s position ie for not reading my appeal properly.
Any advice or insights would be very welcome. Many thanks.