Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: RootieTootie on June 01, 2026, 12:36:32 am
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It's not a formal challenge just a challenge.
I would start it:
I am challenging the PCN, which alleges an off-street contravention in a car park, on the grounds that no such contravention occurred.
There is no signage establishing terms and conditions for such a car park so the PCN cannot be enforced.
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Thanks,
Can this work as an initial appeal? I have been to a tribunal before, but hope it won't get to that stage.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Re: PCN Number .....
I am writing to formally challenge the above Penalty Charge Notice issued to vehicle registration .... on ..... at Playhouse Square Car Park, Leeds Playhouse, for alleged contravention 86.
I attended an event at Leeds Playhouse and parked within one of the long marked strips in the forecourt area. I genuinely believed this to be a permitted parking area based on the layout and markings present on site.
The alleged restriction was not adequately conveyed to motorists for the following reasons:
• There is no clear signage upon entering the forecourt indicating that parking is restricted only to designated bays.
• There is no visible terms and conditions board explaining where parking is or is not permitted.
• The only signage is positioned in the far corner of the site and is too small to reasonably read from a vehicle.
• One sign refers to “Buses & coaches drop off – pick up point only”, while another states “Park in marked bays”. However, there is no clear indication of which markings constitute valid parking bays.
• The forecourt contains several long rectangular marked strips which reasonably appear to be parking bays or parking lanes, and I parked fully within one of these marked areas.
• The individually marked disabled bays are located elsewhere in the forecourt, making the signage ambiguous and unclear.
After receiving the PCN, I spoke to a member of staff at Leeds Playhouse who also indicated that the signage appeared to refer to the disabled bays on the opposite side of the forecourt. Additionally, another vehicle parked in a similar position also received a PCN, further demonstrating that the layout and signage are misleading to reasonable motorists.
Given the absence of entrance signage, the lack of any visible terms board, and the unclear and ambiguous bay markings, I respectfully submit that the restriction was not adequately communicated and request that the PCN be cancelled.
Please find attached photographs in support of this appeal.
Yours faithfully,
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I agree it is not clear at all, but councils get away with this sort of thing because people almost always cough-up the discount when their reps to the council get rejected, (like >95%).. So the councils just carry on collecting money.It's a nice little earner for them. The only place where there is no financial incentive to say "rejected" is the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, but you have to risk the full PCN penalty to take them there, but there are no additional costs, just the PCN penalty if you lose. If you win, you pay nothing, but the council will have had to pay the adjudication fee, plus the staff time preparing the evidence pack.
So it's up to the OP. It's obvious a good case can be put together.
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Thanks for your comments.
Re. whether it is on-site or off-site. The barrier car park that leads off Playhouse Square are to service the Leeds Conservatoire and other private buildings to the right of Playhouse Square. Whereas Leeds City Council owns the Playhouse building.
Can the ambiguity of the sign itself not also be an argument? If it is that you are meant only to park within the disabled bays, then shouldn't it say disabled bays? What are the 5 long strips for? Or are they all only supposed to be for coach drop offs? It's really not clear at all.
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If it's not off-street then the alleged off-street contravention falls at once.
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But is it an off-road car park ? As one turns in to get to it via Mabgate, the road ahead becomes Playhouse Square whicn can still, surely be considered as highway. There is a clear off-road car-park accessed via a barrier off the main square.
The plain fact is that there are two signs covering the square: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RD3oM8EBBUP64GBE6
Here's what they say: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/RD3oM8EBBUP64GBE6
"park in marked bays", but needless to say, they are all for BB holders !
My view is that one can argue it is off-road, but can equally argue that a square can equally be part of the roads infrastucture and the signs there are valid, the OP just didn't read them.
Sorry to be Devil's Advocate, but it's important this argument is played out here before the OP gets to the adjudicators if he decides to do so.
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This needs shortening and focus on it being an off-street contravention (Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 are on-street).
See if tincombe has thoughts.
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Hi thanks @stamfordman. Should I appeal?
Would this appeal letter work? Grateful for any advice.
Dear Sir/Madam,
Re: PCN Number....
I am writing to formally appeal against the Penalty Charge Notice issued to my vehicle, registration number ......, on .... at the Leeds Playhouse for contravention 86.
Grounds for Appeal: the restriction and parking layout at Playhouse Square Car Park were inadequately signed, unclear, and misleading to a reasonable motorist
On ..... I attended an event at Leeds Playhouse and parked within one of the long marked strips located in the forecourt area. I genuinely believed this to be an open parking area based on the layout and markings present on site. The signage and bay layout at this location are wholly inadequate for the following reasons:
• There is no clear signage whatsoever upon entering the forecourt to inform motorists that parking is restricted only to certain designated bays.
• There is no visible terms and conditions board or site information board explaining where parking is permitted or prohibited.
• The only signage present is positioned in the far corner of the forecourt and is too small to reasonably be read from a vehicle upon entering or parking.
• One sign states “Buses & coaches drop off – pick up point only”, while another states “Park in marked bays failure to do so will result in a penalty charge notice”. However, there is no clear indication as to which markings constitute valid parking bays.
• The forecourt itself contains several long rectangular marked strips which reasonably appear capable of being interpreted as parking bays or parking lanes. I parked fully within one of these marked areas.
• The individually delineated disabled bays are positioned elsewhere in the forecourt, away from the signage, making the wording on the sign ambiguous and unclear.
After receiving the PCN, I spoke with a member of staff at Leeds Playhouse regarding the markings and signage, and even they indicated that the sign appeared to refer to the disabled bays on the opposite side of the forecourt. This further demonstrates the ambiguity of the layout and signage.
Additionally, another vehicle parked in a similar position at the same time also received a PCN, which suggests that the layout and signage are capable of misleading multiple motorists acting reasonably.
Given the absence of entrance signage, the lack of any visible terms and conditions board, the unclear and poorly positioned signage, and the ambiguous bay markings, I respectfully submit that the restriction was not adequately conveyed and that the alleged contravention did not occur in a manner that was reasonably clear to a motorist.
Please see attached photos as evidence.
The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 require that signs must be clear, visible, and understandable to motorists. Key points include:
Visibility: Signs should be easily seen by motorists upon entering and throughout the car park.
Clarity: Information on payment, restrictions, and penalties must be clearly stated without ambiguity.
Legibility: Signs must be in a readable font size and style.
Consistency: Signage should be consistent throughout the car park to avoid confusion.
As my attached photographic evidence demonstrates, these guidelines are not adhered to on the parking forecourt of the Leeds Playhouse
I kindly request that you review this appeal and that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled based on the evidence and circumstances provided.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Yours faithfully,
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This is supposed to be an off-street car park but appears to be missing a terms board and any entrance sign. The signage there is not adequate it seems.
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Hi,
I attended an event at the Leeds Playhouse and parked in their forecourt. It is sectioned off in long strips and along the far left side on entering the space are a row of disabled parking bays (See images in link below - for clarity, I did not park in these). I parked in one of the long strips, next to another car that did the same. We both received a PCN. The signage is dire. Two tiny signs in the corner, one blue one which reads "Buses & coaches drop off - pick up point only". Then a parking sign that reads "Park in marked bays failure to do so will result in a penalty charge notice". No timings. The sign is in front of a long strip - so it looks like that is the coach drop of point (see images in link below). When I spoke to the receptionist about the parking bays it is referring to, she said it was the disabled bays on the opposite side of the forecourt, far away from the sign.
I would love to know if I have any argument here. There's no signage at all when driving into the forecourt, the only sign is this tiny one in the corner which you certainly can't read from your car unless you drove right up to it. I also thought the marked long strips were just large bays in which to park in columns. There are four of these long strips and I parked within the strip markings of the one I was in. The disabled bays are beyond those.
The PCN is below and I've dropped a link to the front and back of the PCN, anther link to photos I took myself and a link to a google map of the site. My car is the Purple/Blue Ford KA.
(https://www.ftla.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F7NZ8hfs_xl.jpg&hash=8dd2e070c14503c9b0cbbc7f93dfb07929c8f27e)
Link to front and back of PCN: https://imgpile.com/p/KPVmNSi
Link to photos: https://imgpile.com/p/zSagroa
Google map: https://maps.app.goo.gl/L2mLqAXLGTKQCsNK6
I'd be grateful for any help in understanding my position here. Thanks.