Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: 4977 on May 10, 2026, 08:34:02 am
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Great. I will wait for the NtO.
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They're not obliged to, but often do because although appealing is free for you, they incur a fee in the range of £25-£30 per appeal in addition to which they bear the internal cost of administration in preparing their evidence. This more often than not 'encourages' them to re-offer the discounted sum.
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Will they offer it at £70 if the NtO formal appeal is rejected?
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Code 81 Parked in a restricted area,
You were issued a PCN for parking on a yellow line.....(which on the road would be code 12!).
Rather speaks for itself IMO.
They're idiots whose lack of knowledge is matched by their obstinacy.
Wait for the NTO IMO, and we can compile reps which focus on the key issues. Should be quite short.
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Should I wait for the NtO to make a formal challenge or would it be best just to pay it at this point?
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Morons.
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I have just added the councils reply to my shared images.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/MR69KeVYYExFAb9q9 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/MR69KeVYYExFAb9q9)
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The OP has already submitted a challenge so we'll need to wait for the response.
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Good find stamfordman.
On *** I was, as can be seen in the council's photos, parked on double yellow lines. I am aware of the meaning of these when used in the prescribed and mandated context, namely on a road, but not when used off-street as here.
The council's position is that these alone create and mark a 'restricted area' in the car park, however, there is no legal basis for such a contention: these are authorised for use on roads only. If the council wishes to use them for a different purpose, as here, then it cannot rely on motorist have powers of clairvoyance, their meaning and the potential remedies available to the council must be brought to motorists' attention on site. Please see a recent adjudication decision on this point of law.
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Absent any signage to this effect, the restriction does not exist, the contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.
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This case from yesterday looks encouraging. I'm not sure the adjudicator is right though and has not consulted the traffic order, instead taken the meaning of on-street double yellows when this is off-street.
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Case reference 2260123815
Appellant xxxxxx
Authority London Borough of Tower Hamlets
VRM SU17XNA
PCN Details
PCN TT60306745
Contravention date 26 Oct 2025
Contravention time 00:55:00
Contravention location Ocean North Estate X213
Penalty amount GBP 160.00
Contravention Parked in a restricted area in a car park
Referral date -
Decision Date 12 May 2026
Adjudicator Andrew Harman
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction
cancel the Penalty Charge Notice and the Notice to Owner.
Reasons
The contravention alleged in these proceedings is that this vehicle was parked in a restricted area in a car park. The council puts its case on the basis that the vehicle was parked on a double yellow line. A double yellow line conveys a 24/7 waiting restriction, but it does not indicate that the area is 'restricted' - for that, separate signage is required. There is no such evidence before me. A contravention may well have occurred in this case, but I am not satisfied that the contravention alleged on the PCN has been proved, and I allow the appeal.
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Appeal submitted. Will update with the result.
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An update on the V5C. I have spoken to the DVLA and there was an error when the documents were submitted. They have advised me to apply for a new V5C. What does that mean in terms of this PCN?
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For the reasons in my earlier post, I would delete the penultimate paragraph.
I would also draw your attention to the fact that the vehicle is parked in front of an electrical substation - this is not impeding access to any of the garages to the left and therefore the sign ‘No parking in front of garages’ has been complied with.
I would also switch round and adjust these paragraphs so that they read
The vehicle was parked directly outside of my home. I have parked here on numerous occasions over the past 3 years and have not received a PCN, nor have I seen a Civil Enforcement Officer, nor been given any advice/guidance around parking. This gives rise to 'Legitimate expectation' as ground for cancelling this PCN.
I would also like to raise the following factors:
See what others say.
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Yes no terms setting out that it's even a car park let alone what contraventions may incur a penalty.
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Hows this?
RE PCN JK…
I would like to challenge the PCN issued to my vehicle on the following basis:
I would like to question the legitimacy of the PCN:
The PCN has been issued to a location named as ‘Outside Car Park - Croxted Road Estate’. At the entrance to the estate there is a sign that reads ‘Private Estate - No thoroughfare (please see photo attached). There is no other signage.
If this land is private, then I would like to question whether a Civil Enforcement Officer has the authority to issue a ticket.
Furthermore, if this land is a car park, the Parking Code of Practice states that operators must ensure signs are clear, unambiguous, and prominently displayed, detailing parking charges, terms and conditions, and any limitations. There are no signs displaying this information.
There is no signage that states ‘Croxted Road Estate’ therefore the description of the location on the PCN is vague.
If instead of being a car park this land forms part of a highway and the alleged offence enforced under a Road Traffic Act/Order, then the location given is incorrect. In addition code 81 would be an incorrect code to use for the alleged offence (as this relates to off-street car parks/housing estates and not highways).
I would also like to raise the following mitigating factors:
The vehicle was parked directly outside of my home. I have parked here on numerous occasions over the past 3 years and have not received a PCN, nor have I seen a Civil Enforcement Officer, nor been given any advice/guidance around parking.
On the morning in question there was no parking available in marked bays. As a service charge payer to Southwark Council I expect to be able to park on the estate where I live. You will be aware that there are no permits required to park on the estate, which is a choice made by the council resulting in lack of parking for genuine residents.
The yellow lines around the estate are broken and faded (see attached photos). This suggests that they are no longer compliant or required to be observed.
I would also draw your attention to the fact that the vehicle is parked in front of an electrical substation - this is not impeding access to any of the garages to the left and therefore the sign ‘No parking in front of garages’ has been complied with.
Given the reasons I have outlined above, I would kindly ask that you cancel this PCN. In addition, as I have recently taken ownership of this vehicle and I have not yet received the V5C, please ensure that any replies, the Notice to Owner or any other correspondence is sent to the correct address as follows: .. Glazebrook Close, Se21
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Regarding the V5 - I bought the car at the end of March and I am yet to receive it. How would this affect any appeal?
It could have a serious effect.
The Council, in order to send out the NtO, are alloed on this occasion only, to ask DVLA for the details of the keeper on the day of the offence (which will be keeper previous to you until the date the V5 is uppdated. To that address the Council will send the NtO and all subsquent paperwork.
What date did you submit the V5 with the new details?
So in any challenge to the PCN made to the Council, you must make very clear the new name & address and tell the Council to use this address in responding to your challenge and the NtO and any subsequent correspondence.
When it comes to making a challenge (post a draft here for comment before sending but do not miss deadlines), keep a copy and any receipt or acknowlegement from the Council of yr challenge .
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I agree. 'Croxted Road Estate' is the description the council apply to the whole estate. Residents use road names. I've always found it a bit bizarre - is it an estate with parking or are they roads? I have seen people clamped for no tax which would suggest the roads are adopted highway. But then there are signs saying private estate!
Regarding the V5 - I bought the car at the end of March and I am yet to receive it. How would this affect any appeal?
Should I wait to see if I receive an NtO before I appeal?
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Sorry to have missed ot earlier
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xfntm76ce8NPjWWc7
But it's hardly prominent (cf.the street signs) and still does not indicate that it is 'Claxton Road Estate'. Nor does it mention anything about parking, tho' it does mention Dog Fouling.
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I just added the photo of the sign at the entrance to the estate; 'Private Estate'.
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I think faded DYLs will not succeed as they are recognisable as such.
You may have an argument for 'legitinate expectation' as you have parked there for years without enforcement. BUT (playing devil's advocate) an adjudicator may well take a dim view of obstructing the doors of an electricity sub-station where rapid access may be required in an emergency.
You are anyway on notice that enforcement is happening.
However, at the NtO stage you may have a case for 'vague location'. The keeper (not necessarily the driver) should be able to readily identify the location from the NtO.
'Croxted Road Estate Outside Car Park' is a more ot less meaningless term (There are no indications of entering an estate at the entrance
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8BXN87b7bZ3JUaJr7 )
And if it is not marked as an estate should code 81 be used?
It should have said something like 'Glazebrook Close, SE21 Outside No. xx)'
The house numbers on Google maps do not match those seen on the bungalows)
Against that you appear actually live next to where the parking took place.
Talking of the NtO, are you the keeper and is your name & address on the V5 correct in every detail?
See what the experts here advise but do not miss deadlines.
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There are no posted terms and conditions. No permits are required to park here.
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This is an off-street car park. The restricted area contravention is standard for parking on double yellows and is probably in the traffic order.
But a car park needs posted terms and condition - is there a board there? Any instructions with your permit?
(https://i.ibb.co/vxg1LpWJ/s2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/0jTRnnFd/s3.jpg)
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Hoping for some help.
My vehicle was parked outside my home yesterday morning and I received a ticket for parking on yellow lines. My vehicle was reversed directly in front of the electrical substation doors.
Mitigating factors - I have lived here for 3 years and to my knowledge parking enforcement has never taken place; the vehicle was directly outside my home due to lack of parking spaces on the estate (permits are not required); I have frequently parked here in the past.
Potential appeal reasons - incomplete yellow lines?
I'm open to any suggestions for appeal if anyone can help. I'm pretty sure this is council owned land not owned by an association.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/MR69KeVYYExFAb9q9 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/MR69KeVYYExFAb9q9)
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xNJJhGqeSSTFkYYt9?g_st=ac (https://maps.app.goo.gl/xNJJhGqeSSTFkYYt9?g_st=ac)