Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: shah123 on May 01, 2026, 12:25:37 pm
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as you can see in response, LA state in other words they believe I did not need loading bay
No they didn't. They didn't question your use in principle, they rejected your claim to have used it lawfully because they applied a version of the law called Newham's Rules, a very localised and incorrect interpretation of the law.
On the basis of your account, I would suggest something along these lines:
On *** I parked in the designated loading parking place in Anthems Way in order to deliver by way of my commercial occupation of haulier/carrier a load of *** to **** which is situated near the parking place. The process of delivery required me to *********. This, combined with obtaining confirmation of delivery, took no longer than necessary.
Before the authority repeat their mistaken understanding of what is considered to be 'loading' under the council's Order, I would refer you to the Environment and Traffic Adjudicators(ETA) position, which itself is derived from Case Law, as follows:
'However, in the case of couriers or professional deliverers of goods on a delivery round, this commercial context would lead the Panel to conclude that this is certainly the sort of activity for which the exemption is designed - even if an individual item being delivered at any one point is small and easily carried in the hand.'
the mere fact that a CEO does not see loading in progress does not
automatically mean that loading is not taking place. However, the longer the
observation period with no sign of movement of goods the greater the
evidential burden on the motorist to give some explanation for this and
demonstrate that something amounting to loading was in progress out of view.
I did not set out this detail in my earlier representations because I thought that ETA's position was understood by authorities. If you are in doubt then please seek legal advice.
As I was engaged in an exempted activity the contravention did not occur and the PCN must be cancelled.
But OP, more proof and detail is needed from you, including a Copy Invoice that at least includes the correct delivery date!
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@tincombe
i have already provided evidence to LA
as you can see in response, LA state in other words they believe I did not need loading bay
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@tincombe
I reached out to Big K transport manager, he explained to me all their appeals relating to parking charges when loading are dealt with by attaching the invoice / loading sheet hence they shared the invoice with me to send to the LA
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1O3qzX42BNNTTLhw7o8np9gcJjDVPMdZe/view?usp=drivesdk
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We should see this evidence pl. When you make reps you'll refer to this and anything else in support.
IMO, these extracts from a Key Case are of importance:
However, in the case of couriers or professional deliverers of goods on a delivery round, this commercial context would lead the Panel to conclude that this is certainly the sort of activity for which the exemption is designed - even if an individual item being delivered at any one point is small and easily carried in the hand.
So, can you prove 'commercial context'?
..and we can refer the council to this principle adopted by adjudicators:
the mere fact that a CEO does not see loading in progress does not
automatically mean that loading is not taking place. However, the longer the
observation period with no sign of movement of goods the greater the
evidential burden on the motorist to give some explanation for this and
demonstrate that something amounting to loading was in progress out of view.
Let's see what proof you have pl, not simply claims.
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@tincombe
the NTO is addressed to me, i am the RK
I pick up jobs, ad-hoc basos, self-employed via different apps to deliver/pick up goods, courier in my own vehicle
I refer to the company invoice confirming the delivery of charcoal / coal bags which need to be unloaded, and delivered then returned.
Newham Council tried to argue that I had ample time and it was not a necessity.
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NTO issued 11 June, therefore deemed served Mon. 15th which is day 1.
28-day period ends 12 July. You have plenty of time to assemble the details you need and to look at who's who here.
You refer to company receipt.
What is your capacity e.g. acting on own account, employee, contractor etc?
Is the NTO actually addressed to you?
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Bump @tincombe @Incandescent @johnu.k.
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/10ATVB_6BVODq6zac39376GlTDYvl9eco/view?usp=drivesdk
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I get a message This browser version is no longer supported . . .
:(
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@tincombe @Incandescent
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11h2xdy-fXklHxEaBEUzy4K-e8VyZ7Qlp
Open link
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Thanks.
Latest date for submission of reps is ???
..because the link isn't public and the NTO cannot be seen.
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@tincombe @Incandescent
I have uploaded the NTO - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11h2xdy-fXklHxEaBEUzy4K-e8VyZ7Qlp
appreciate any advice
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You're not at tribunal, the next stage is that the registered keeper receives a Notice to Owner and may make formal reps. Are you the RK and are your details current?
If so, wait for the NTO and we can draft something which addresses and destroys their reasoning.
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@tincombe yes, they only observed for such a limited time. Unloading a few bags, trolly to building and up and back. Takes more than 5-7 minutes
Do I just say it as it is or is there any structure recommended to present my case to tribunal
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OP, see s 13.15 here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
In a way, the council are correct e.g. only for as long as necessary and loading must be taking place.
As regards their claim regarding the visibility of the process, it's nonsense. Case law states that the term 'loading' whether applied to yellow lines or parking places reserved for 'loading', applies to:
Unloading;
Loading;
Collecting;
Delivering.
And that 'delivering' and 'collecting' must of necessity occur away from the vehicle.
I would carry on if(and only you know this) you were in the continuous process of delivering a load and then returning to the vehicle.
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Like all London councils, Newham have responded to your informal reps with the usual Fob-Off letter, because they know that >95% of people then cough-up, not wanting to risk the full PCN penalty, and, needless to say, thinking that the council know more about the law than they do. Experience of this forum is that councils do NOT know the law and some make it up as they go along judging by their refusals.
So really you have to decide whether to follow the 95% or stand your ground.
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@Incandescent the contravention occurred during loading times, challenge is I was loading, evidence provided from supplier.
Newham have stated (see response via link), observed vehicle for 7 minutes, if no loading seen within 5 mins etc, they deem my stopping in the loading bay to unload coal and go up the building convenience not necessary, hence PCN stays
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Do509mpucjxssHxbKP7GW5YGqNPkrKd/view?usp=drivesdk
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Photo shows the sign for the bay says "Loading Only Mon-Sun 8-11 am. However the bay may be within a permits-only zone.
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@tincombe changed to anyone with link
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OP, it's not publicly accessible.
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What loading bay, you've posted a permit holders bay?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/11RyHBypFOPhykBwIv0C3QEbvCzANmOF7/view?usp=share_link
@tincombe have taken a photo (revisited site)
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This is the response from Newham dated 30 April
Response to informal appeal, rejection. 14 days to get the rejection and then make the formal rep
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10Do509mpucjxssHxbKP7GW5YGqNPkrKd/view?usp=drivesdk
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@tincombe https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZcgsPhsB4npFt9X39
you can see the loading bay from this view, looking at anthem way
@Incandescent is there any particular wording to reference or do I just state the obvious, I was on a delivery, I provided the invoice, Newham response was b*ll, do I just appeal formally and take this to Tribunal?
Any directions or steer?
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What loading bay, you've posted a permit holders bay?
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As usual, they're talking complete bo***cks. The 'loading' activity encompasses all the necessary activities to complete the loading and driving off, so taking the goods to the delivery location so part of it. There is no 20 minutes max time in the law, they have just made it up.
Of course stopping to chat and have a cup of tea and a fag is not part of loading, needless to say.
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PN25417145
https://maps.app.goo.gl/7tq3c46jTuGAofMZ8
Parked on anthems ways, loading bay, Mon - Sun 8-11am
I sent evidence of delivery being made, company invoice which has been acknowledged
Newham state that no evidence I was delivering as car viewed for 7 minutes. It was a few bags of coal which takes ages in the buildings to go up. Takes more than a few minutes to go up the front door.
They reference it was not a necessity for me but convenience hence I got the ticket.
Also evidence on PCN portal the images are not time stamped so no evidence the CEO watched for any duration.
Additionally Newham website reads as I can unload and no mention of the 5 minutes they claim I need to be seen.
https://www.newham.gov.uk/parking-permits/parking-rules-newham/3
I’ll upload their response via google link need to remove private data.
Do I have grounds for strong appeal?