Free Traffic Legal Advice

Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: bagold on April 27, 2026, 09:37:04 am

Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: Incandescent on May 12, 2026, 05:31:46 pm
Well done !
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on May 12, 2026, 04:33:03 pm
Just a BIG thank you to everyone.

I received a long reply from Westminster Council about how I violated parking restrictions and how loading is limited to 20 minutes. But "...taking into account that you are a volunteer for a charity, I have exercised discretion on this occation and cancelled the PCN."

I will definitely be more careful next time. But again many thanks to everyone who contributed with your advice.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 30, 2026, 03:24:12 pm
+1.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: stamfordman on April 30, 2026, 02:41:28 pm
Make sure the note doesn't undermine you though by saying you stopped longer than making the deliveries.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 30, 2026, 02:39:04 pm
Got it. Thank you.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: stamfordman on April 30, 2026, 12:36:33 pm
This is best approach IMO.

-----------

Challenge on the grounds of contravention did not occur.

I am challenging the PCN because I was engaged in the exempt activity of unloading, namely delivering multiple packages to the Marylebone Project at 1-5 Cosway Street, which houses this women’s hostel and homelessness service.

To supplement the project's work, families from north London prepare approximately 400 food packages every 6 weeks. Given that my driving skills exceed those of my cooking, I'm designated to deliver these loads which I do regularly, almost invariably on a Saturday.
Until the day in question, I have parked on a yellow line without issue.

On the day of the PCN I delivered the food packages plus bags of clothes donated by women from north London but could not find a space close by other than in the parking place which I mistakenly thought was subject to the same restrictions as the yellow lines.

I probably made 10 trips to/from the hostel and presumably it was during one of these that the CEO issued the PCN.

I understand that such unloading falls under exempt activity, and enclose a note from the hostel confirming the delivery.

I trust this will be accepted by you and look forward to early confirmation of cancellation of the PCN.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: catnip on April 29, 2026, 06:01:49 pm
Just a minor point but worth correcting in your draft text, I think that you may have missed the word 'delivering':

"On the day of the PCN I was actually delivering the food packages"
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 29, 2026, 05:27:40 pm
I have received the donation form from the charity. We got this signed as we entered at 5:35. PCN issued at 6:33pm. As I said I was relaxed as I thought the car was parked legally. Given these circumstances isn't the first version still more appropriate?
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 29, 2026, 03:54:36 pm
As stamfordman has posted Westminster's policy, I suggest you make this point clear in your draft because you are claiming this exemption.

Perhaps put a heading - PCN ******; Challenge on the grounds of contravention did not occur.

I am challenging on these grounds because at the time of the contravention I was engaged in an exempt activity, namely delivering.

In detail....As the ......

and replace: It has been mentioned to me that delivering might actually be allowed in these spaces but I wouldn't know. If it is, I have attached evidence of my activity (donation form signed by my wife xxxx xxxx) and hope this is sufficient for you to cancel the PCN. Alternatively, if delivering is not allowed I would still ask you to exercise discretion."

With..PCN to me because they were not aware that I was delivering which is an exempt activity. I have attached proof that I was delivering to these representations and look forward to your confirmation that the PCN has been cancelled.

Or similar..

Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 29, 2026, 02:40:06 pm
Thank you. But should I add to my statement that I posted today at 6:49?

Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 29, 2026, 02:34:18 pm
I admire your honesty, but why would you want to tell them anyway?

In any event, you don't actually know the relevance of any max. period because in effect your time in the bay was in 2 distinct parts: what happened prior to the PCN contravention time and what happened afterwards.

IMO, only what happened before would be relevant and I doubt you know precisely how long you'd been parked at that time.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 29, 2026, 01:17:25 pm
Since I assumed my car was parked correctly we took our time and talked to the residents of the hostel so we did not complete in 20 minutes. So perhaps this argument may not be valid.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: stamfordman on April 29, 2026, 12:54:30 pm
Loading is an exemption so you could claim it upfront or go with your draft. My advice is usually to set out a statutory ground to start if there is one but you have a worthy cause.

Westminster policy for code 12:

Private vehicles – if evidence of loading/unloading observed, give 20 mins casual observation as above.
For private loading activity, the goods must be too heavy or bulky to be carried from a legal parking place.
If no evidence of loading activity seen, instant PCN.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 29, 2026, 08:15:45 am
This is my draft. Just to be clear once we had finished delivering my wife signed the donation form. The charity will be sending a copy of the donation form.


"As the authority knows, there is a Marylebone Project located in 1-5 Cosway Street which houses a women’s hostel. To supplement the hostel's work, some families from north London prepare approximately 400 food packages every six weeks. Given that my driving skills exceed those of my cooking, I'm designated to deliver these loads which I do regularly, almost invariably on a Saturday. Until the day in question, I have parked on a yellow line without issue. On the day of the PCN I was actually the food packages plus a few bags of clothes donated by the women from north London but could not find a convenient space other than in the parking place which I mistakenly thought was subject to the same restrictions as the yellow lines.

I now know differently.

I probably made ten trips to/from the hostel and presumably it was during one of these that the CEO issued the PCN. It has been mentioned to me that delivering might actually be allowed in these spaces but I wouldn't know. If it is, I have attached evidence of my activity (donation form signed by my wife xxxx xxxx) and hope this is sufficient for you to cancel the PCN. Alternatively, if delivering is not allowed I would still ask you to exercise discretion."
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 28, 2026, 06:49:19 pm
Perhaps post a draft here first?
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 28, 2026, 02:48:52 pm
Thanks you. These are pretty much the facts. I'll fill in the blanks. I'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 28, 2026, 01:25:28 pm
What's your role in this and for how long and at what frequency do you deliver food.

Scoping this, perhaps...

As the authority knows, there is a **** hostel located in **** which houses ****. To supplement the hostel's work, *** families prepare food and **** on a regular basis and given that my driving skills exceed those of my cooking, I'm designated to deliver these loads which I do regularly, almost invariably on a Saturday. Until the day in question I have parked on a yellow line without issue. On the day of the PCN I was actually delivering clothes donated by *** but could not find a convenient space other than in the parking place which I mistakenly thought was subject to the same restrictions as the yellow lines.

I now know differently.

I probably made ** trips to/from the hostel and presumably it was during one of these that the CEO issued the PCN. It has been mentioned to me that delivering might actually be allowed in these spaces but I wouldn't know. If it is, I have attached evidence of my activity and hope this is sufficient for you to cancel the PCN. Alternatively, if delivering is not allowed I would still ask you to exercise discretion.

........

The degree to which the above represents the actual facts, I don't know. But I suggest you challenge in a similar comprehensive way to give yourself the best chance. 
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 27, 2026, 02:54:17 pm
Really appreciate this.

About ten families, every six weeks, cook and make food packages for the women's shelter (https://www.maryleboneproject.org.uk/). Each family makes about 40 packages of food to be distributed one per person at the shelter. So this results in about 15 or  bags full of food containers. This week I also had a couple of bags of clothing.

I am 63 years old and can only carry two bags at a time. So I guess about eight trips between the car and hostel.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 27, 2026, 02:47:36 pm
If you give us some idea of the load and how many journeys to/from the car which you made then we could perhaps draft something for you. But you need to be more specific if you're to melt the heart of a council.
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 27, 2026, 10:19:20 am
Thank you for your reply.

I was parked for about half an hour. Like I said once I saw Monday-Friday, I was a bit more relaxed about delivering rather than rushing to unload the car as soon as possible. I got the ticket while I was signing the donation form at the shelter. Again if I thought I was parked illegally I could have made the shelter rush this instead of waiting my turn to see the receptionist. If required I can certainly get proof from the shelter that I was making food donation.

So given this information should I appeal or just pay up?
Title: Re: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: tincombe on April 27, 2026, 09:49:25 am
Controlled Parking Zones refer to waiting restrictions on yellow lines and have nothing to do with parking places, which(subject to seeing their photos) is where you were.

Parking places are controlled by upright traffic signs whose times may or may not align with CPZ hours.

In your case there might be an exemption to the parking restriction in respect of delivering, so pl post this detail e.g. what type of loads, for how long were you parked, how many trips to/from your delivery destination were made, how far was this from where you parked, had you previous experience of doing this etc?
Title: City of Westminster - Code 12r Parked in Residents Permit Bay - Query about permitted times
Post by: bagold on April 27, 2026, 09:37:04 am
Two days ago on Saturday at 18:33 I received a Penalty Charge Notice from City of Westminster. I was delivering donated food from friends and family to the women's hostel. I saw the Controlled Zone sign saying Monday-Friday 8:30am-6:30pm so I became relaxed about parking my car there. But I didn't realise there was another sign about Parking Permit Monday-Saturday 8:30am-10pm.

Should I just pay up or do I have any grounds to appeal? I honestly just saw the Controlled Zone sign and assumed parking restrictions don't apply on a Saturday.

The amount is £80 if I pay up quickly or else double.

I would appreciate any advice. Thank you.

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