Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Wendy on April 12, 2026, 05:49:08 pm
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Thank you to you both, I still think it is worth challenging as there is a mixture of sign sizes, road markings leading to ambiguity and motorist not being aware.
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Typical use of vague terms, like "a small network of roads with little or no through traffic". So what is a "small network" ? For me, the signage is totally inadequate, but you have to convince an adjudicator, not me !
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Traffic Signs Manual.
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Thank you. I intend to challenge the ticket.
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but I do feel there should be an obligation to sign adequately
There is, as Incandescent's link states:
such traffic signs in such positions as the order making authority may consider requisite for securing that adequate information as to the effect of the order is made available to persons using the road;
So, what's adequate in the council's mind might not be in yours. At present IMO any defence hinges on whether the keeper could persuade the authority and ultimately an adjudicator that what's present is not adequate!
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Thank you. Yes initial signs were missed, but I do feel there should be an obligation to sign adequately. Your confirmtion is much appreciated. I am trying to upload the missing images for anyone who needs to see them. I apologise if these are not in the correct place.
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So here are the signs as you turn into Rowson Street:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ViSqma6yTc9qdLqJ7
And indeed, GSV shows no repeater signs at all as far as I can see. This is a very large area so the absence of repeater signs could win at adjudication, but first you have to go through the stages with the council. I would think you have a good chance at adjudication, but of course you must risk the full PCN penalty, not the discount. So if you're up for it, fight them on the basis of totally inadequate signage.
Councils are obliged to erect adequate signage of a restriction under Regulation 18 of The Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Procedure) (England and Wales) Regulations 1996
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/regulation/18
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Thank you, I had a lot of trouble uploading the images, shall I try to re-upload? From St Helens Road and entered via Rowson Street, into New Cross Street, Cross Street and then on to Grosvenor Road. I didn't see the signs at entry or any further signs - on the roads I travelled or any side roads. Nothing.
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Not sure if the many (14) links I have posted are visible? Anyone able to advise. TIA
I only see the link to your car video, and a GSV link.
Here are the entry signs: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/bEHvpqW3TYNKPqV1A
The zone covers several streets, but I see no repeater signs, making compliance totally reliant on seeing the entry signs. Did you turn into Grosvenor Road from St Helens Road ?
I woud submit reps on the lines of you missing the entry signs, and with no repeater signs, parked as normal, and state that large permit zones should have repeater signs. Obviously they will reject those, but they may shoot themselves in the foot in their reply, thus giving a lead to a robust appeal to the adjudicators. However, this depends on whether you are prepared to risk the full PCN penalty.
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Not sure if the many (14) links I have posted are visible? Anyone able to advise. TIA
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Unknowingly, parked in a 'permit holder parkig only pased this point.' Unfamiliar with area, didn't see sign travelled through 4 other streets and parked only to find a PCN on return. There was nothing to indicate I could not park there (or in any of the other 4 streets). No bays, double yellow lines, curb markings, no repeater signs, no pay and display point. I took images of where I had parked/video of street.
Once home did some research looked on Google and found that this seems to have been deemed an experimental parking scheme and Knowsley Council website states trial parking scheme which looks like it might have just come to an end. I have checked on Google Maps for signage and been back to check that Google Maps information is accurate and up to date and it is.
I feel that there needs to be more frequent, adequately sized and positioned signage, standardised signage too. Behaviour seems preditory, designed to trap unsuspecting motorists. It maybe that the signs will be rolled out over the coming months? In the meantime that is cold comfort.
Any help and advice would be most appreciated. Thank you.
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