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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Cc24 on April 09, 2026, 10:55:55 am

Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 20, 2026, 07:18:17 pm
Hi, Sorry I missed these replies, I am new here and have not quite got to grips with the forum just yet. I appreciate your help and in all fairness, I am feeling much more happy to challenge them further about this. I think I was mislead and so would like to take it further. Do you know roughly how long the whole process will be including the decisions from the tribunal.

Thanks again everyone and sorry for the misuse of the forum.
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: John U.K. on April 20, 2026, 07:13:59 pm
You were here this afternoon - did you not see Incandescent's post, Reply#11? You need to answer his points.

Don't worry about merging posts: everyone here has a chance to see and respond to your thread - so please do not start another, but concentrate on this one.
Title: Re: Advice - Deadline tomorrow - Westminster tricking me with part coned off section
Post by: stamfordman on April 20, 2026, 03:00:08 pm
You already have a thread on this...

https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/westminster-code-21u-parked-wholly-or-partly-in-a-suspended-bay-or-space/
Title: Re: Advice - Deadline tomorrow - Westminster tricking me with part coned off section
Post by: Incandescent on April 20, 2026, 11:21:43 am
It all depends on your attitude to risk. Clearly you were mislead by the cones. You saw the yellow sign, and took the cones as the suspended area, as many people would do. Councils must put up signs etc to give a clear announcement on what the restriction is. Here they seem to have failed in this basic duty.

So you can take them to London Tribunals, but first must go through the Notice to Owner stage. The NtO is sent by post to the name and address on the V5C. So are you the owner, and if so, is your V5C Registration Certificate up-to-date ?
Title: Advice - Deadline tomorrow - Westminster tricking me with part coned off section
Post by: Cc24 on April 20, 2026, 08:58:41 am
Hi Everyone,

I have an issue with a PCN and my initial appeal which failed. I posted about it but the images i attached did not work. I then tried to repost but it merged and as a result no one else saw my post. The chance to pay the reduced fee ends tomorrow (21st) and so i am rather concerned about what to do.

Contravention: 21u (Parked in a suspended bay)
Location: Berkeley Square
Sighted: 22:17 / Issued: 22:17


The Grounds for Appeal:

Legitimate Expectation / Misleading Demarcation: The suspension area was physically cordoned off with traffic cones, but the specific bay I parked in was left entirely open and accessible. The cones clearly started immediately after my vehicle. I argued that this created a visual safe zone that a reasonable motorist would rely on, especially as the physical demarcation contradicted the distant signage.

Ambiguous Asset Identification: I do not know if this can be a defense but the notice refers to Lamp Column 19, but the column itself is labeled with a vertical 1 over a 9. At night, this was not intuitively identifiable as 19 and is arguably non-standard labeling. (Note: I did not mention this specific point in the informal challenge).


The Rejection:
Westminster has rejected the challenge. Crucially, they admitted to the absence of cones in their letter (Whilst I appreciate you believed parking was permitted due to no cones being present...) but claimed the sign is the final authority (the sign is also not quite near the parking of my car which you can see in the photos). They failed to address the point regarding observation time or the specific location of the vehicle relative to the coned-off zone.

Evidence Links:
https://imgpile.com/p/pZe2kIS

Does the Legitimate Expectation argument hold weight at Tribunal, or should I take the 50% hit now?

If you want to see the PCN number please reply and I will share it, I am just worried it will merge again and no one will see it.

Thank you to everyone!
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: John U.K. on April 15, 2026, 12:35:04 pm
Hi everyone, this is a repost as I previously uploaded the images and they had not worked.
. . .
The threads have been merged as forum rule is one thread per one case.
Title: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 15, 2026, 12:23:06 pm
Hi everyone, this is a repost as I previously uploaded the images and they had not worked. I am seeking advice on whether to proceed to Formal Representations or pay the £80 discount following a rejected informal challenge. I was caught in Berkeley Square by what appears to be a cone trap suspension. I have already appealed and been rejected so I am seeking advice on what to do next.

Case Details:
PCN Number: WE66227915
Contravention: 21u (Parked in a suspended bay)
Location: Berkeley Square
Sighted: 22:17 / Issued: 22:17


The Grounds for Appeal:

Legitimate Expectation / Misleading Demarcation: The suspension area was physically cordoned off with traffic cones, but the specific bay I parked in was left entirely open and accessible. The cones clearly started immediately after my vehicle. I argued that this created a visual safe zone that a reasonable motorist would rely on, especially as the physical demarcation contradicted the distant signage.

Ambiguous Asset Identification: I do not know if this can be a defense but the notice refers to Lamp Column 19, but the column itself is labeled with a vertical 1 over a 9. At night, this was not intuitively identifiable as 19 and is arguably non-standard labeling. (Note: I did not mention this specific point in the informal challenge).


The Rejection:
Westminster has rejected the challenge. Crucially, they admitted to the absence of cones in their letter (Whilst I appreciate you believed parking was permitted due to no cones being present...) but claimed the sign is the final authority (the sign is also not quite near the parking of my car which you can see in the photos). They failed to address the point regarding observation time or the specific location of the vehicle relative to the coned-off zone.

Evidence Links:
https://imgpile.com/p/pZe2kIS

I feel the Council has failed in its Duty to Consider by providing a boilerplate response to the cone issue. Does the Legitimate Expectation argument hold weight at Tribunal, or should I take the 50% hit now?
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 10, 2026, 04:31:08 pm
I would still greatly appreciate any further opinions now that I have fixed the images link!
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 09, 2026, 02:16:02 pm
What is the vehicle VRM.
here is the images from my end https://imgpile.com/p/pZe2kIS
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 09, 2026, 02:12:57 pm
please let me know if this works https://imgpile.com/p/pZe2kIS
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 09, 2026, 01:52:23 pm
Here are council pics bar a couple of close-ups of windscreen.

No suspension sign or anything putting you in a suspended bay.

I would be inclined to go on with this - they need to satisfy an adjudicator and this won't do it in my view.

(https://i.ibb.co/SXmp35hC/w6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/BHwMnLDQ/w5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/9XpRQPt/w4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/zHTVyM28/w3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JWBR9gBz/w2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4nHswHrC/w1.jpg)

I also find it unusual to cone of some of the suspended bays, and have the open bays furthest away from the sign.
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: stamfordman on April 09, 2026, 01:50:56 pm
Here are council pics bar a couple of close-ups of windscreen.

No suspension sign or anything putting you in a suspended bay.

I would be inclined to go on with this - they need to satisfy an adjudicator and this won't do it in my view.

But post their rejection in full. Your Google link doesn't work.

(https://i.ibb.co/SXmp35hC/w6.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/BHwMnLDQ/w5.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/9XpRQPt/w4.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/zHTVyM28/w3.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/JWBR9gBz/w2.jpg)
(https://i.ibb.co/4nHswHrC/w1.jpg)
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 09, 2026, 01:43:15 pm
What is the vehicle VRM.
Hi, it is AJ56 UGD
Title: Re: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: stamfordman on April 09, 2026, 01:42:14 pm
What is the vehicle VRM.
Title: Westminster - Code 21u, parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space
Post by: Cc24 on April 09, 2026, 10:55:55 am
Hi everyone, seeking advice on whether to proceed to Formal Representations or pay the £80 discount following a rejected informal challenge. I was caught in Berkeley Square by what appears to be a cone trap suspension. I have already appealed and been rejected so I am seeking advice on what to do next.

Case Details:
PCN Number: WE66227915
Contravention: 21u (Parked in a suspended bay)
Location: Berkeley Square
Sighted: 22:17 / Issued: 22:17


The Grounds for Appeal:

Legitimate Expectation / Misleading Demarcation: The suspension area was physically cordoned off with traffic cones, but the specific bay I parked in was left entirely open and accessible. The cones clearly started immediately after my vehicle. I argued that this created a visual safe zone that a reasonable motorist would rely on, especially as the physical demarcation contradicted the distant signage.

Ambiguous Asset Identification: I do not know if this can be a defense but the notice refers to Lamp Column 19, but the column itself is labeled with a vertical 1 over a 9. At night, this was not intuitively identifiable as 19 and is arguably non-standard labeling. (Note: I did not mention this specific point in the informal challenge).


The Rejection:
Westminster has rejected the challenge. Crucially, they admitted to the absence of cones in their letter (Whilst I appreciate you believed parking was permitted due to no cones being present...) but claimed the sign is the final authority (the sign is also not quite near the parking of my car which you can see in the photos). They failed to address the point regarding observation time or the specific location of the vehicle relative to the coned-off zone.

Evidence Links:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nMN9sri4szlc39EhXVb2aTr3Ohy55LHM?usp=drive_link

https://imgpile.com/p/pZe2kIS

I feel the Council has failed in its Duty to Consider by providing a boilerplate response to the cone issue. Does the Legitimate Expectation argument hold weight at Tribunal, or should I take the 50% hit now?