Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: ss201 on November 29, 2023, 10:14:04 am
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Please give us the date of the rejection letter.
26 Dec, so I assume the two weeks should be up by 9 Dec.
Wait for the experts, but for some documents the date of the document has to be the date of posting.
Highly unlikely to be posted on Boxing Day!
Must have been 27th, service deemed 29th, 2 weeks (including 29th = 11th January.
I agree; but...........
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Please give us the date of the rejection letter.
26 Dec, so I assume the two weeks should be up by 9 Dec.
No: 10th January. Please show the whole letter so we can give proper advice. @ ss: have you got your dates right?
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The date of a NOR must be the date of posting and the date of service which is the date you start to count from is 2 working days from the date of posting.
As we do not know the date of posting then the document is flawed and that may well win on it's own
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Please give us the date of the rejection letter.
26 Dec, so I assume the two weeks should be up by 9 Dec.
Wait for the experts, but for some documents the date of the document has to be the date of posting.
Highly unlikely to be posted on Boxing Day!
Must have been 27th, service deemed 29th, 2 weeks (including 29th = 11th January.
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Please give us the date of the rejection letter.
26 Dec, so I assume the two weeks should be up by 9 Dec.
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Please give us the date of the rejection letter.
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Thanks, that's what I'll do.
So post your draft reps here for comment first.
Here is the rejection letter
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here is the draft. I have copied the second point from the other thread but I feel more can be written in the first point, perhaps mentioning that I saw green light in front can invalidate the point that I don't know which junction it is!
Dear London Borough of Redbridge,
I am putting forward two reasons for the PCN to be cancelled:
1. It is seen from the video that I was stationary for three seconds, so it should fall under the principle of De Minimis Non Curat Lex
2. A PCN is required to state the grounds on which the authority believes a charge is payable, and this has been held to require not only the nature of the alleged contravention but also the location where the allegation is said to have taken place. The location of the contravention simply states "Goodmayes Road", but there are at least five box junctions on Goodmayes Road and it is not possible to determine from the PCN where exactly the contravention is said to have occurred.
It follows that the PCN is invalid and must be cancelled.
Yours faithfully,
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Thanks, that's what I'll do.
So post your draft reps here for comment first.
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Thanks, that's what I'll do.
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Paying normally closes the case, so do not pay if you want to challenge.
Most Councils re-offer the discount if reps made within the discount period.
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Thanks, do I pay the fine and complete the representation in the online form in case the fine goes up? Sorry I have not done this before so want to make sure that the fine doesn't go up when the 14 day period passes.
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We've had previous success on Goodmayes Road I believe by arguing the PCN location is too vague. Redbridge has seen fit to paint no fewer than five different box junctions along it and the PCN doesn't give the recipient any clue as to which it is referring to.
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=149002&st=20
I'd suggesting drafting representations arguing a combination of this and mickR's point.
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Thanks for the reply, three seconds is even less than the four seconds I thought! Here are the rest of the PCN.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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please post up the complete pcn back and front to look for errors.
looking at the video you appear to be stationary for around 3 seconds which may be an argument for de minimis.
there was also space in front of you (if you had crept forward slowly you wouldn't have stopped at all).
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I got a ticket for being in a yellow box junction in Redbridge near Goodmayes station. I saw the traffic light turn green so I moved into the junction knowing that the car in front of me was going to move soon. I don't know how to share the video here but I checked it and I was in the junction for about 4 seconds, is there anything I can do? Part of the letter is attached if anyone wants to have a look at the video. Thanks in advance.
[attachment deleted by admin]