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Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: speedfighter23 on June 27, 2023, 12:33:14 am

Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on March 12, 2025, 10:19:43 pm
This is an old thread, but do the principles still apply?

No, there are new ones that work even better. Start your own thread and we'll help you out.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: John U.K. on March 12, 2025, 11:07:47 am
This is an old thread, but do the principles still apply?
Thanks




I've a feeling they don't (see Reply#17 above) but please see
https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/read-this-first-before-posting-your-case!-this-section-is-for-council-tfl-dartme/
and start your own thread
https://www.ftla.uk/index.php?action=post;board=3.0
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: Naomi_Brooks on March 12, 2025, 10:08:54 am
This is an old thread, but do the principles still apply?
Thanks

Send this:


Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability on the basis of a procedural impropriety, specifically it is unlawful for you to serve a postal PCN in these circumstances. I refer you to the red route panel decision in Commercial Plant Services Ltd & others v Transport for London (2230060716, 25 May 2023) published at www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Red%20Route%20Panel%20Decision.pdf

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


If they reject, I'll sort out the tribunal appeal for you.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: Hippocrates on February 12, 2025, 10:51:48 am
AFAIR TFL chap wanted to reopen all the old cases following the High Court decision. Mr Teper was rightly not impressed.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on February 12, 2025, 01:12:16 am
First instance outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C2BSfugY__kdIx-s_9cn1oAETXbJpo0n/view).

Review outcome (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oAJSt6LPbWRqBiQeW96G-FGVsX-OpGBF/view).

Note: these decisions are historic and are superseded by the judicial review in Transport for London, R (on the application of) v London Tribunals (Environment and Traffic Adjudicators) [2023] EWHC 2889 (Admin) (https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2023/2889.pdf)
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on September 19, 2023, 06:20:00 pm
Note to self: CCTV camera is a Predator HD Ultra but TFL has refused to confirm exactly which one. Internal review due back on 16 November.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: Hippocrates on September 14, 2023, 08:54:53 pm
Should be an expensive session at The Knights' Templar!  I'll be there.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: speedfighter23 on September 14, 2023, 12:36:59 pm
Lol TFL not happy?


Dear Mr XXXXXXX

TfL has sought a review of the decision of the adjudicator in your case. It has also sought an urgent judicial review of the leading decision in the High Court.

The Chief Adjudicator has directed that the review application for your case be suspended until the lead case is heard at the High Court.

We will contact you again in due course.


Yours sincerely,

Case Management Team
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: Hippocrates on September 07, 2023, 02:36:04 pm
They will all follow the panel decision for the time being at least.  Congratulations.  But, yet another example of a voracious and shameless authority attempting to rip off people who are not so fortunate as to come on here and fight.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: speedfighter23 on September 07, 2023, 12:16:25 pm
We won!

Thank you so much everyone for the help.
TFL did not even show up, what a joke, they really need to stop getting away with this.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on September 07, 2023, 09:26:34 am
Outcome (https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1C2BSfugY__kdIx-s_9cn1oAETXbJpo0n) but we expect TFL to seek a review.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on August 28, 2023, 03:10:57 pm
Please do this: https://www.ftla.uk/civil-penalty-charge-notices-(councils-tfl-and-so-on)/tfl-code-46-parked-on-a-red-route-(loading-box)-or-clearway-egerton-road-n16-par/msg3935/#msg3935
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: speedfighter23 on August 06, 2023, 10:57:30 am
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12377011/Sadiq-Khans-TfL-broke-law-using-CCTV-traffic-wardens-fine-drivers-landmark-ruling-motorists-owed-millions-pounds-refunds.html


Nice one!
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on August 05, 2023, 02:05:37 pm
I have sent you a PM.

Also, you might want to have a look at this thread: https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/tfl-judicial-review-326/
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: speedfighter23 on August 05, 2023, 12:58:01 pm
Sure, let me know whatever you need from my end! Thank you so much.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on August 05, 2023, 10:29:46 am
I think you have standing to oppose the judicial review, but first you need to appeal the PCN.

For the sake of simplicity, would you like me to represent you at the tribunal?
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: guest17 on August 04, 2023, 06:31:57 pm
Copied over from Pepipoo:-

OP----in previous cases TfL have either tried for an adjournment or asked the appellant to ask the Tribunal for an adjournment.

However in your case they haven't made such a request or asked you to place your case in abeyance.

You need to read the Decision in this case:-

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1787830

So you have been prejudiced by an unlawful demand for money.

The Chief Adjudicator makes it quite plain that TfL cannot act in this fashion and that appellants cannot be placed in this prejudicial position.

Submit an appeal to the Tribunal and ask for costs (4 hours at £19ph should do it). That's just your time and effort in researching and incidental costs.

Mike
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: speedfighter23 on August 04, 2023, 03:23:55 pm
They said no.

'The decision you have quoted is disputed and subject to legal challenge'

Madness. Didn't they lose their legal challenge as well? I should go for costs!

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: speedfighter23 on June 27, 2023, 04:42:37 pm
Perfect thanks will let you know what they come back with, they said 15 days.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: cp8759 on June 27, 2023, 03:59:15 pm
Send this:


Dear Transport for London,

I challenge liability on the basis of a procedural impropriety, specifically it is unlawful for you to serve a postal PCN in these circumstances. I refer you to the red route panel decision in Commercial Plant Services Ltd & others v Transport for London (2230060716, 25 May 2023) published at www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/default/files/keycases/Red%20Route%20Panel%20Decision.pdf

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


If they reject, I'll sort out the tribunal appeal for you.
Title: Re: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera opera
Post by: Pastmybest on June 27, 2023, 01:30:21 pm
TFL cannot issue a PCN via CCTV in bays situated on red routes they must be served by affixing to the vehicle by a CEO see link
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=150034
Title: TfL - Camden - 46 - Stopped where prohibited (on a red route or clearway), Red route and PCN issued via camera operator,
Post by: speedfighter23 on June 27, 2023, 12:33:14 am
Didn't realise you couldn't park at here midnight, I thought from the sign it was a 7am-7pm no parking.

Can they really just take pictures and send it by post without ever writing a ticket?

What do you guys think.



https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hr0f2W0OYx4RPwRaH4c3Z9eJlsuQUk1B/view?usp=sharing