Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: twinkerbell on November 28, 2023, 03:09:14 pm
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I sent this:
I am writing to appeal against your PCN.
I am the registered keeper of the vehicle but am extremely physically disabled, have no driver's licence and did not park the vehicle. Furthermore I have no way of knowing which of the many people insured to drive it was the one who parked it before your PCN was issued.
I have parked in that specific disabled space displaying my Blue Badge for over 19 years. When PCM took over parking control on behalf of [Housing Association] in 2017 I was issued with three carers' permits and have had no further contact with PCM.
To be clear, I have never been told by [Housing Association] or PCM that I needed anything other than my Blue Badge to park in a marked disabled parking space at my home.
I have spoken to PCM's permit team since receiving two PCNs. I have now been told I need a permit to park and have arranged that.
It seems to me that someone who works for PCM has recently chosen to target vulnerable and disabled people in order to make some money. This is clearly discrimination as the resident here in [development where I live] who issues PCNs has never ticketed a resident or visitor displaying their Blue Badge.
For all of the above reasons I will not be paying this PCN.
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Can you share what you sent in this appeal?
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Twinkerbell - did you read my DM?
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Thanks all. I've appealed and told them I'm not paying. We'll see what happens!
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I lease my car through the Motability scheme because I need a large vehicle with a lot of adaptations. I don't know if I am the Registered Keeper as Motability hold the V5 but PCM have got my details from DVLA/Motability.
Motability are a special case iirc, you are the registered keeper, with your address on the V5, but Motability keep a digital copy of the actual V5 on their systems so they can tax the car for you.
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Thanks everyone.
H C Andersen; all your assertions are correct. To answer your questions, I lease my car through the Motability scheme because I need a large vehicle with a lot of adaptations. I don't know if I am the Registered Keeper as Motability hold the V5 but PCM have got my details from DVLA/Motability.
I paid the PCN for my mother because the anxiety was making me ill. Definitely fighting my two though.
Advice re. what to write in my appeal gratefully received. Thanks very much.
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OP, this thread has become a little twisted, can I try and unravel it a little pl.
You don't drive.
A car in which you were a passenger was issued with PCNs(Notices to Driver) on 2 separate occasions recently, in contrast to 'for the 19 years I've lived here I have parked in the same disabled parking space and only displayed my Blue Badge. '.
You have posted 3 PCNs, one of which was on 'my mother's car'.
To be clear:
As far as you are concerned as a resident, there has been a significant change in the enforcement practices at the car park;
You have never held a parking permit for the car park;
You had not received any prior correspondence on this from your landlord or Housing Association;
The drivers are liable however, exceptionally the registered keepers may be held liable instead if the creditor follows prescribed statutory procedure.
So:
Are you the registered keeper of any of the vehicles? Is your mother?
If not you, who?
Is your mother a resident?
Are your/their DVLA details current?
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Should I just pay the PCNs and try to get the housing association to reimburse me? This is a lot to deal with and if PCM are going to be litigious am I risking huge debts?
Absolutely not, they almost certainly won't and getting it cancelled is more likely than them reimbursing you!
IF it went to court and IF you lost it would cost the £100 each for the notices and about £120-130 on top, so no.
They aim to make it look like a lot to deal with as it makes you more likely to cave and pay, if you understand their mindset it puts you in a stronger position to fight it.
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What has changed in the last 6 weeks ?
Can you recall when the signs went up ?
It seems very odd that since pcm allegedly started enforcement over 5 years ago nothing happened until 6 weeks ago.
Have you changed your vehicle ?
Are the carers new and thus new vehicles ? (though I imagine you have many different carers and not a consistent predictable set).
In terms of the tickets on the carers vehicle you can't appeal them. You have no standing (though the carers could authorise you to. However PCM will happily take your money).
You need to discover the permitting/white listing arrangements.
PCM will expect you to display and your carers to display a visitors permit. Otherwise it seems likely they will keep on coming.
Whether or not PCM have a right to this either for yourself or visitors is a different thing, but if they don't see it they will continue.
As a reminder when you are being driven anywhere your BB has no particular meaning on private land.
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Sorry; the third PCN. It's within 28 days unlike the others. The housing association made me wait for over 10 working days to completely ignore my issue and refuse to discuss it further.
Should I just pay the PCNs and try to get the housing association to reimburse me? This is a lot to deal with and if PCM are going to be litigious am I risking huge debts?
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I'll try with the last one.
Not sure what you mean by this?
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Yes, someone else always parks it. I don't have a driving license.
The notice says I have 28 days to appeal. I'll try with the last one.
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I'm extremely physically disabled and there is no way I could have parked my car in that space.
Did someone else park it?
There's not much you can do to 'hold them off' as such - what does the back of the notice say about deadlines for appeals?
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I've requested my lease by email and phone; still waiting, no surprise there! Is there anything I can do to hold off PCM while the complaint goes through the extremely inefficient housing association? I'm extremely physically disabled and there is no way I could have parked my car in that space. Also, if there are marked disabled spaces and no mention of any restrictions on the signs is that worth mentioning? The signs were all replaced about 6 months ago. I just don't want my visitors or me getting in more debt or court action with PCM.
Thanks again for your help.
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Thanks for the info - it'll be important to get hold of a copy of your lease and see if it mentions anything in respect of parking.
The housing association are still your best bet to make this go away - as I noted PCM won't give up easily. There is an argument that could be made around 'forbidding signage' - no consideration is being offered to those without permits, and therefore no contract is formed. But this is an argument that would only work in court (and even at court there's no guarantee).
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3. These are the three PCNs I need to deal with. The first was on a visitor's car and the other two were on mine.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Hi DWNB
1. I have always parked in the same marked disabled space with my Blue Badge; it's not an allocated space though. I have three passes for my carers to use when they're working at my flat. No-one has ever informed me that I needed a permit from PCM to park here.
2. These are the signs close-up and the position where my car is parked.
[attach=1][attach=2][attach=3]
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The woman I spoke to at PCM said they started patrolling here in 2017. There has never been a consultation to my knowledge (or memory).
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Can you recall when the PCM scheme was introduced and whether there was any consultation.
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Thanks very much. I'll get pictures in daylight tomorrow. I've requested a copy of my lease. Will post all info tomorrow.
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To offer advice we'll need a bit more info.
- What is the arrangement for parking at the development? Do you have an allocated space? What, if anything, does your lease say about parking?
- Can you show us photos of the signs at the site? We'll need to be able to read the T&Cs. Photos showing their layout at the site may also prove useful
- Can you upload copies of the notices received?
In addition to the above you need to keep the pressure on with the Housing Association. PCM can be litigious.
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Hi! I live in Housing Association flats. The private communal car park is patrolled by PCM, a parking company, who require residents to buy permits. However, for the 19 years I've lived here I have parked in the same disabled parking space and only displayed my Blue Badge.
In the last six weeks I, another resident and visitors have all received several PCNs while parked in disabled spaces with Blue Badges in the windscreen. The PCNs stated we had parked without displaying a valid PCM permit. We've never been informed by the Housing Association or PCM that we need permits.
I've googled private car parking laws and can't find any change in them. PCM's signs don't even mention disabled badge holders despite there being nine clearly designated spaces. I've contacted the Housing Association and they have not engaged with my enquiry and are now refusing to discuss the matter further. I'll deal with them by making a formal complaint but the important thing is that I deal with the PCNs.
If anyone has advice on how to appeal two PCNs on my car and one on my mother's car I'd be really grateful. Thanks very much.