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Live cases legal advice => Private parking tickets => Topic started by: Jimbob1976 on March 23, 2026, 01:39:35 pm

Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 20, 2026, 12:20:55 pm
Quote from: DWMB2 on May 20, 2026, 12:16:49 pm
Quote from: Jimbob1976 on May 20, 2026, 12:07:07 pm
"The fact that no payment was recorded does not prove the contravention if the driver was not adequately informed of the terms."

I dont think that adds anything really, im not sure?
It's a fair point, but if you've already made that point in your main appeal you can get away without repeating it.

Thanks for that. They sent as their evidence a whole bunch of pics etc, i didnt use that in my initial response as the main line of attack was the incorrect number of days. I am not sure i should add that in as it wasnt used originally and gives them a chance to respond?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: DWMB2 on May 20, 2026, 12:16:49 pm
Quote from: Jimbob1976 on May 20, 2026, 12:07:07 pm
"The fact that no payment was recorded does not prove the contravention if the driver was not adequately informed of the terms."

I dont think that adds anything really, im not sure?
It's a fair point, but if you've already made that point in your main appeal you can get away without repeating it.

Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 20, 2026, 12:07:07 pm
Ok so i think the above will work, however, i also think i should remove this part:

"The fact that no payment was recorded does not prove the contravention if the driver was not adequately informed of the terms."

I dont think that adds anything really, im not sure?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 20, 2026, 06:24:51 am
Ok. So I have gone back through my initial response, made some tweets to it. I think this is a stronger arguement

I have reviewed the operator’s evidence and case summary. I maintain my appeal and request that it be allowed for the reasons below. The operator has failed to establish keeper liability and has not proved the contravention adequately.

1. The Notice to Keeper (NTK) is not compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 – No Keeper Liability

This is my primary ground of appeal. The operator relies on keeper liability but their NTK fails to meet the mandatory statutory requirements of paragraph 9(2) of Schedule 4 POFA 2012.

The operator’s NTK states:

"you are advised that if after the period of 30 days beginning with the day after that on which this parking charge notice to keeper is given..."

This wording is materially defective because paragraph 9(2)(f) requires the NTK to warn the keeper that the creditor will have the right to recover the unpaid parking charge from the keeper after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after the notice is given (subject to the other conditions).

The operator has substituted 30 days for the statutory 28 days. This is not a minor or inconsequential change. It misleads the keeper as to the precise legal trigger for liability and alters the timing Parliament prescribed.

The operator claims “nothing in Schedule 4 requires us to quote it verbatim” and that the BPA has “approved” their wording. This is misleading. While the entire Schedule need not be reproduced, the Act does mandate that specific prescribed information (including the exact 28-day warning in 9(2)(f)) must be included. BPA approval does not override statute or bind POPLA. Adjudicators assess compliance with the law, not trade body approval.

By failing to convey the mandatory warning accurately, the operator has not satisfied the strict conditions in paragraph 9. Therefore, the conditions for keeper liability under paragraph 6(1)(b) are not met. They have no legal basis to pursue me as the registered keeper. Liability (if any) remains with the unknown driver.

2. No admission as to who was driving

I appealed strictly as the registered keeper. I have never admitted to being the driver, and the operator has provided no evidence identifying me as the driver on 11 March 2026. Without a compliant NTK under POFA, they cannot pursue the keeper.

The operator has provided a redacted landowner agreement and details of parking sessions. This does not cure the fundamental failure on POFA compliance. The fact that no payment was recorded does not prove the contravention if the driver was not adequately informed of the terms.

For the reasons above — particularly the clear defect in the NTK — I respectfully ask POPLA to allow the appeal and cancel the charge in full.

Opinions?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Sander333 on May 19, 2026, 08:48:01 pm
I have seen PCN whereby 29 days have mentioned your mentions 30 days. The Act does indeed mention 28 days. I have not seen any feedback the recipient of PCN has been disadvantaged with being over the 28 days. Perhaps someone may have further information for you.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 19, 2026, 08:11:44 pm
I can't add on any new evidence anyway that didn't make up my first appeal, so I think the above is my best chance.

Hoping others can chime in with experiences that may help on this instance.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Sander333 on May 19, 2026, 07:58:22 pm
Mitigation does not cut any ice with the parking company or POPLA as far as I am aware you have to have a solid defence appeal. If you cannot go further with your appeal then hope for the best and plan for the worse i.e court. There it will be decided if they have complied with POFA.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 19, 2026, 04:56:41 pm
There were mitigating factors which i am sure they wont pay attention to. The driver is a Mental Health Nurse visiting a client and the appointment over ran. They have the parking app as they use it all the time and paid (or least they thought)as usual for the extra hour. It wasnt until a week or so later they realised the payment didn't go through, by which time it was too late to pay (no history on the app at all for this payment).
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Sander333 on May 19, 2026, 04:41:59 pm
It really depends what you have appealed on has any more weight that you can add to it it is not unusual for Parking companies to play tennis in an appeal situation I did one and it must have gone back and forth about half a dozen times or more. I used lack of sineag, period of parking before acceptance disagreement where signs were place according to plan submitted etc to substantiate my defence of their claim. It looks as if you can’t bolster your appeal it may well be turned down. Then it will be scary letters time and or court option.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 19, 2026, 04:38:43 pm
I have just looked through and found this, again by AI:

Comments on Operator Evidence Pack – PCN Reference: [XXXX]

I have reviewed the operator’s evidence, including their assertion that they do not need to quote the legal schedule verbatim.
The operator’s Notice to Keeper states:
"you are advised that if after the period of 30 days beginning with the day after that on which this parking charge notice to keeper is given..."
This does not comply with the mandatory requirements of Schedule 4, paragraph 9(2)(f) of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. The Act requires a specific warning using 28 days, not 30 days.
By altering this prescribed element, the operator has failed to meet the strict conditions for keeper liability. No such liability arises. They may only pursue the driver (whose identity they do not know). I therefore request that the appeal be allowed and the charge cancelled on this basis.


Is this a strong argument? I mean surely they have to fully comply with the legal guidlines?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 19, 2026, 03:53:17 pm
They're stating:

the Notice to Keeper letter was approved by the BPA as being compliant with the requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 to enable us to pursue the keeper of a vehicle in the event they do not provide us with the name and serviceable address of the driver within 30 days of the notice being deemed as “served”. Please note, that nothing in Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 requires that we quote it verbatim, and as explained, the letter has been approved by the BPA on several occasions as being compliant in terms of wording relating to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on May 19, 2026, 03:50:39 pm
So i finally after 3 weeks had a response from Popla. Total Car Parks have come back and challenged it and now i have 7 days to provide comments.

Do i stick by my guns and go with the letter being non-compliant due to the incorrect information (30 days to pay/appeal instead of the 28), or is there anything else i should do now?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: jfollows on April 28, 2026, 09:25:39 am
I’ve never used it either, just use “other”.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 28, 2026, 09:18:09 am
I'm talking about on the actual POPLA website, I've never used it before so I just wanted clarification that I was on the right page. What I wrote below is the actual wording from the appeal site. There are 6 options to choose from.

I've also never said I wasn't the keeper?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: jfollows on April 28, 2026, 09:09:07 am
In Reply #21 you say
Quote
I am the registered keeper
so why would you now say you’re not?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 28, 2026, 09:05:47 am
Sorry I guess I am appealing under

"I was not the driver or the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time of the alleged improper parking"?

I guess it's that or other....
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: DWMB2 on April 28, 2026, 08:08:01 am
You can add attachments. If you're doing this, refer to them in your appeal text by name, and make sure the file names you upload match that.

No need to upload their evidence for them though, the company will upload their own notice.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 28, 2026, 07:46:40 am
Thanks do you know if there is an option to add documents/clips from the actual notice and "add" then on to the Popla website? Or would I just state the actual wording on the defence (assuming Popla would have all the paperwork from Total as part of the process?).

Regards
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: DWMB2 on April 28, 2026, 07:23:52 am
This is a decent outline - I'd be half tempted to set out both sets of wording side by side, the correct one, then what your notice says, to show the clear difference not only in wording but in meaning.

I think that's worth making clear - with some wording issues, the operator may claim that they have used different wording to convey the same meaning, but here that is not the case.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 28, 2026, 07:16:58 am
Ok, as this is my last post before attempting Popla myself, I used AI to draft this appeal, would really appreciate people's comments on this:

Dear POPLA Assessor,

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle referred to above and I wish to appeal the Parking Charge Notice issued by Total Car Parks on the following grounds. I ask that you consider all grounds.

1. The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Therefore, the operator cannot transfer liability to the registered keeper.
The operator has attempted to rely on keeper liability under POFA 2012 but has failed to comply with the strict mandatory requirements of Schedule 4.

Specifically, the Notice to Keeper incorrectly states that the keeper has 30 days in which to pay or appeal/name the driver. Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 requires the NTK to warn the keeper that, if the parking charge is not paid in full and the name and current address of the driver are not provided, the creditor will have the right to recover the unpaid parking charge from the keeper after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given.
This is a material error. The wording and timing on the NTK do not match the statutory requirement. As a result, the conditions for keeper liability under paragraph 6(1)(b) of Schedule 4 have not been met. The operator therefore has no legal basis to pursue me as the registered keeper.

2. No admission as to who was driving
I am appealing as the registered keeper. I have not been identified as the driver at the time of the alleged parking event, nor have I admitted to being the driver. The operator has provided no evidence that I was the driver. Without a compliant NTK under POFA, they cannot pursue the keeper.

I respectfully request that POPLA uphold this appeal and cancel the Parking Charge Notice in full.

Regards


What do you think?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 26, 2026, 09:20:57 am
Quote from: Jimbob1976 on April 23, 2026, 02:37:13 pm
Hi All

Would anyone with better knowledge than i please advise on the above, just wanted to get the appeal in but want to make the appeal as assertive as i possible can.

Thanks in advance and sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Hate to bump this but it's been a few days and if possible I'd love some feedback on the above and how I can put my case forward with more assertion if needed
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 23, 2026, 02:37:13 pm
Hi All

Would anyone with better knowledge than i please advise on the above, just wanted to get the appeal in but want to make the appeal as assertive as i possible can.

Thanks in advance and sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 22, 2026, 06:09:20 pm
Would the below be suitable or how i can i give it a little more oomph:

FORMAL APPEAL - PCN xxx

To Whom It May Concern,

I wish to make formal representations against PCN [number] issued on [date].

I am appealing this parking charge on the grounds of POFA 2012
non-compliance, namely, Paragragh 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 the Protection of Freedoms Act says the notice must:

warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given.

However, the PCN notice received states:

"You are advised that, if after the period of 30 days beginning with the day after that on which this Parking Charge Notice to Keeper is given."


Also, the parking company operator has no legal right to enforce the charge against the keeper, and also has no legal right to require the keeper to name the driver.

With both of these facts in place, the charge cannot be allowed to stand and my appeal should stand.

Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: jfollows on April 22, 2026, 05:19:23 pm
Research the forum, write something, post it here, you will get input or approval.
You have to construct the framework for your case, but we’ll correct or modify as appropriate.
Templates just lead to people blindly submitting things they don’t understand, I find.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 22, 2026, 04:35:56 pm
Thanks for this, is there a standard template anyone has for such outcomes? I dont want to trip myself up if i get it wrong, also i know this sounds like i am palming it off onto others, i just want to make sure i am giving myself as good a chance as i can.

Regards
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: jfollows on April 22, 2026, 03:54:04 pm
If your appeal is on non-compliance with PoFA 2012, as discussed earlier, you need to amplify the point with POPLA by quoting the legislation and leading the assessor through the reasons why the notice does not comply with the legislation, then conclude by stating that the driver has not been identified and therefore you as registered keeper can not be held liable.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 22, 2026, 03:47:16 pm
So Total have rejected the appeal and have finally sent me the popla code, i had to chase them for it.

See attached the letter, can someone please advise how i should appeal this with POPLA please?

https://ibb.co/1fwmN8dC

https://ibb.co/v6VVzBvt

Any help would be greatly recieved.

Regards
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 14, 2026, 10:36:29 pm
I've just gone back to them saying -


Good morning,

Again I wish to draw your attention to the below -

"You are unable to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have failed to issue a Notice to Keeper properly compliant with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.'

I guess they'll now send me the Popla code, will update once I hear back.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: jfollows on April 14, 2026, 11:49:25 am
They are fishing for the driver’s identity, I would ignore.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 14, 2026, 11:46:13 am
Apologies for reposting, i'm wondering if I should just go back with the same initial response? Seems odd they haven't accepted my arguement but also haven't turned it down, and have given me a further 4 days?
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 11, 2026, 09:14:03 pm
Anyone able to advise on the above please guys. Just want to get the ball rolling before the 28 days
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on April 10, 2026, 01:02:16 pm
We have had the below from Total, not dismissed the appeal and havent issued a code to appeal to Poplar either:

Thank you for your appeal.

 

Please see below response to your appeal:-

 

The Notice to Keeper letter was issued within the appropriate time frames required by Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, and contained the required wording as outlined by Schedule 4 of POFA 2012, to enable us to pursue you for payment of the unpaid Parking Charge in the event we are not informed of the name and serviceable address for the driver within 30 days of the issue date of the Notice to Keeper letter. If you can provide this information within the 30-day period we will transfer the liability but if this is not provided the liability will remain with you.

 

We have placed the above parking charge on hold until the 18th of April 2026 (30-day period)

 

Kind regards


What should be my next move?

Regards
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on March 25, 2026, 08:23:58 am
Thank you. I have done this today, changed the drop down to keeper rather than driver which was the default.

Will update when they inevitably refuse the first appeal
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: DWMB2 on March 24, 2026, 10:57:38 pm
Unusually, they seem to have calculated the PoFA period wrong - their notice says:

You are advised that, if after the period of 30 days beginning with the day after that on which this Parking Charge Notice to Keeper is given...

Paragpragh 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 the Protection of Freedoms Act says the notice must:
warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given...
.

On that basis, I'd be tempted to appeal as the keeper on the lines of the below:

Dear Sirs,

I have received your Parking Charge Notice (Ref: ________) for vehicle registration mark ____ ___, in which you allege that the driver has incurred a parking charge. You are unable to hold me liable as the registered keeper, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("The Act"). You have failed to issue a Notice to Keeper properly compliant with The Act, and it is now too late for you to do so.

There is no obligation for me to name the driver and I will not be doing so. I am therefore unable to help you further with this matter, and look forward to your confirmation that the charge has been cancelled. If you choose to decline this appeal, you must issue a POPLA code.

Yours,

If appealing online, be careful there are no drop down/tick boxes that cause you to identify who was driving, and keep a close eye on your spam folder for their response. If they do not respond within 28 days, chase them.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on March 24, 2026, 04:30:48 pm
Quote from: DWMB2 on March 24, 2026, 04:16:35 pm
Please be patient. You posted yesterday, and have since bumped your thread 3 times. If everyone did that, this forum would be impossible to use.

Apologies, i understand you are all volunteers, sorry for the "chaser", i had just seen other posts posted after mine and already answered. Excuse my impatience.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: InterCity125 on March 24, 2026, 04:20:42 pm
The NtK does not appear to be PoFA compliant.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: DWMB2 on March 24, 2026, 04:16:35 pm
Please be patient. You posted yesterday, and have since bumped your thread 3 times. If everyone did that, this forum would be impossible to use.
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on March 24, 2026, 03:54:37 pm
Anyone at all? If someone could help that would be excellent, i have also just posted on the MSE forum too but you guys have been great in the past, so thought i would persevere.

Regards
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on March 24, 2026, 09:09:13 am
Just bumping this in case anyone may have missed it.

TIA
Title: Re: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on March 23, 2026, 07:49:01 pm
Hi all, is anybody able/willing to take a look at this one at all? Can find out more information if required.

TIA
Title: Total Car Parks - Gorleston - NTK for late return
Post by: Jimbob1976 on March 23, 2026, 01:39:35 pm
Hi all,

Owner received a NTK from Total Car Parks today for overstaying in their Gorleston Car Park.

The driver did attempt to make payment for 2 hours via payment app, they only noticed it wasnt successful a few days later after not seeing it debitted from their account. No history in their app account either, a call to the app customer services also confirmed payment not successful.

Is there anyway the owner is able to challenge this? Attached paperwork for your information.

Regards

https://ibb.co/LdxP8pLT (https://ibb.co/LdxP8pLT)

https://ibb.co/6cmWzhnf (https://ibb.co/6cmWzhnf)