Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Speeding and other criminal offences => Topic started by: Fnz1991 on March 13, 2026, 10:25:29 am
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One stop line
Two sets of traffic lights
One for the right and one going straight
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Presumably, NJ is referring both to Schedule 14 Part 1 Paragraph 5 (8 ) (b), and to filter lights (arrows) rather than lights that happen to be in separate filter lanes (which the above makes no mention of).
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14
(8 ) A green signal indicates—
(a)subject to paragraphs (b) and (c), that vehicular traffic may proceed beyond the stop line and proceed straight on or to the left or to the right;
(b)where the signal is an arrow, vehicles may only proceed in the direction indicated by the arrow;
(c)where the signal is a pedal cycle symbol, only vehicles which are pedal cycles [F1and electric scooters being used in a trial] may proceed.
For the benefit of the intellectually challenged, and for those that like to play with their food, how many stop lines are there? How many pairs of traffic light posts are there (ignoring repeaters in the distance)?
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https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents
It specifically refers to “filter lane” type signals. It clearly states that a driver may proceed beyond the stop line in the direction indicted by the arrow. This is what the OP did and I believe no offence has been committed.
That sort of "filter lane" surely would be where there is a single set of lights where the main green light is not an arrow, and the green right arrow is part of that set of lights to the right of the main green? That allows you to move forward in the filter lane on the main green and even to make the turn if it's clear. The green right filter light then indicates you can go (with the usual caveats) as the oncoming traffic has been stopped by a red.
In this case there are essentially two sets of lights: one controlling ahead and left turning traffic; the other controlling right turning traffic. Each controls its own lane(s). I would hesitate to try to use your logic therefore to say there is no offence here. (Not saying I know the answer, just that I think your argument is shaky.)
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It specifically refers to “filter lane” type signals. It clearly states that a driver may proceed beyond the stop line in the direction indicted by the arrow. This is what the OP did and I believe no offence has been committed.
Logically (dangerous word in statutory interpretation), for it to be otherwise, the traffic lights would need to be considered as 2 separate systems controlling separate junctions. From the GSV link, it is clear that it is a single set of lights.
edit: For the sake of sanity, it should be noted that the right turn arrow does not have the word "Only" painted under it, and therefore is not mandatory
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Red light offences are 'absolute' I think it's called such that there is no excuse permitted.
Where "senior" members of the site understand that the legal position is X, but are not absolutely certain, it can be helpful to consider alternative opinions, and the reasoning behind them. It can also be helpful to consider how much credence to give to such opinions. Is it a genuinely arguable legal point, well thought through, and supported by some kind of authority, or is it merely a vox pop from someone whose purpose in life is to demonstrate that the internet's democratisation of dissemination of information has a downside? To that extent, your post is very helpful.
An absolute offence is one to which there is no defence, that is to say that once the elements of the offence have been proven, that is the end of the matter. There are very few absolute offences, because absolute offences preclude the otherwise overarching defences of duress and duress of circumstances. I'm pretty certain that strict liability offences cannot be absolute offences, but that's getting even further off topic.
This is very different to the far more common strict liability offences, where liability is not absolute, merely strict - that is to say that the commission of the offence solely requires the actus reus (the guilty action) and not the mens rea (guilty intent). For 'proper' crimes, there needs to be an intent, whether that is specific, or even just recklessness, depending on the offence in question. Almost all motoring offences are strict liability.
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If so, it may be that if lane 3 was red to turn right but lanes 1 & 2 were green for straight on that you have triggered the lane 3 camera. Does that make sense?
That’s undoubtedly what happened. But the question is whether or not an offence has been committed.
The passage I found last night comes from The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016, Schedule 14, Part 1, Paragraph 5.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/contents
It specifically refers to “filter lane” type signals. It clearly states that a driver may proceed beyond the stop line in the direction indicted by the arrow. This is what the OP did and I believe no offence has been committed.
It’s convenient for the police to detect errant drivers by monitoring the right-turn lane. But it means they may also detect some drivers who do not turn right.
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So were you in lane 3 but indicating left to move into lane 2 to continue straight?
If so it may be that if lane 3 was red to turn right but lanes 1 & 2 were green for straight on that you have triggered the lane 3 camera. Does that make sense?
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Well my viewpoint is that sadly you have no escape on this one: others may differ in their comments.
Red light offences are 'absolute' I think it's called such that there is no excuse permitted.
If say you had moved forward at an angle into the LH lane with no intention to turn right but did so to let an ambulance/fire engine etc through on red for them to turn right then again sadly you would be "done" for crossing the stop line.
This is why on my local dual carriageway we regularly get police and ambulances stuck behind the two lanes of traffic waiting at traffic lights on red and not one single person is going to move. Only if personally directed in person by a police officer in uniform are you allowed to cross the line at a red indicating traffic light. Them blaring their horn behind you to move does not count!
The regulations permit a driver to proceed in the direction indicated by the green arrow. There are - so far as I can see - no references to or caveats or exceptions regarding "lanes", and so the OP does not appear to have committed any offence.
I fail to see what relevance emergency vehicles have to the OP's case.
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Them blaring their horn behind you to move does not count!
Says who?
A good starting point, as far as the OP’s incident is concerned, would be to look at what the law says.
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Well my viewpoint is that sadly you have no escape on this one: others may differ in their comments.
Red light offences are 'absolute' I think it's called such that there is no excuse permitted.
If say you had moved forward at an angle into the LH lane with no intention to turn right but did so to let an ambulance/fire engine etc through on red for them to turn right then again sadly you would be "done" for crossing the stop line.
This is why on my local dual carriageway we regularly get police and ambulances stuck behind the two lanes of traffic waiting at traffic lights on red and not one single person is going to move. Only if personally directed in person by a police officer in uniform are you allowed to cross the line at a red indicating traffic light. Them blaring their horn behind you to move does not count!
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I'd suspect that the OP did cross the stop line of the "turn right" lane albeit it at an angle while moving left into the straight ahead lane.
If they were hard up against the stop line in the right hand lane it would be almost impossible (without reversing!) to get into the LH lane without crossing the stop line in front of them. If they were a bit further back of course then they could do it.
Yes this is right I was at the stop line crossed it to get completly into the left and then went straight
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I'd suspect that the OP did cross the stop line of the "turn right" lane albeit it at an angle while moving left into the straight ahead lane, thereby triggering the camera from the sensor pads in the road.
The offence as I understand it is of crossing the line when the lights for that lane are red regardless of where the driver wanted to go. Even if you cross the line for emergency services (and you should not) you are guitly of crossing the line
If they were hard up against the stop line in the right hand lane it would be almost impossible (without reversing!) to get into the LH lane without crossing the stop line in front of them. If they were a bit further back of course then they could do it.
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Yes, that's my view too, hence the request to the OP to get a google street view.
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Then in my view, the red light for the right turn means you must not cross the line to turn right - and you didn't.
Hopefully others will be along with their opinions.
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Yes that was green can see in the pictures as well
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Was the straight ahead signal still green when you crossed?
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https://maps.app.goo.gl/X5tS4rc2wg3KBkjQ9?g_st=ic
Hope this helps
Is this junction
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Can you send a location with google street view otherwise we're working in the dark.
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Hope this is the right place. I’m in England (UK).
I received a Notice of Intended Prosecution for allegedly failing to comply with a red light.
What happened:
• I was stopped at a junction in the right-turn lane, where the right-turn arrow was red.
• The lane for going straight had a green light.
• The lane markings between the lanes were broken (dashed), not solid.
• I indicated left, waited until it was safe, and moved left to go straight.
• As I crossed the stop line, the camera flashed.
The photos show:
1. My car stopped at the line in the right lane indicating left.
2. The next photo shows my car crossing the line angled left, going straight.
I did not turn right and the direction I went (straight) had a green light.
The notice says the recorded time into red was 91 seconds.
The alleged offence wording is “Fail to comply with red / green arrow / lane closure light signals – automatic equipment.”
Do I have any realistic chance of disputing this, or will it still count as running the red because I crossed the line from the right-turn lane?