Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: 11235813sk on March 12, 2026, 06:52:16 pm
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Draft wording for you to submit. Suggest you do this online and take a screenshot when you do so.
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Re: PCN AF21770289
I wish to submit representations against this PCN on the grounds that the penalty charge exceeded the amount applicable in the circumstances of the case.
The location in the PCN is described as Ilford Lane; however Ilford Lane is around one mile in length and contains more than one box junction. The PCN is required to set out the grounds on which a penalty is demanded, and this inevitably includes a clear statement of the location of the alleged contravention. Although it might be possible for a motorist to trace the location from the photographs with some effort, the Council’s prior duty is to set it out clearly. There seems no good reason why the location could not simply be stated as "Ilford Lane road junction with Southbourne Gardens", or "Ilford Lane road junction with St. Lukes Avenue" etc as would routinely be done in the case of a road traffic summons in the Magistrates Court. As the PCN is defective no penalty may be demanded on the basis of it.
On this basis I look forward to confirmation that the penalty charge has been cancelled.
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If the council rejects (which they almost certainly will) they will reoffer the £80 discount option (they are not legally obliged to do so but Redbridge always does).
I can draft up some appeal wording for you in the next couple of days.
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Yes, you have a chance. However, it's not a frequently used argument and so I don't have much data to predict where probability of success lies on a scale of 0% to 100%.
Here's a couple of examples of where it's been successful in the past (also Redbridge box junctions) - quoting these may also boost your chances. However, I'd be lying if I said it's a slam dunk - you may get an adjudicator who refuses to engage with it as a line of argument.
Case Details
Case reference 223033552A
Appellant Janice Flint
Authority London Borough of Redbridge
VRM FV65SVZ
PCN Details
PCN AF97410735
Contravention date 19 Jun 2023
Contravention time 13:46:00
Contravention location Goodmayes Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Entering and stopping in a box junction
Referral date
Decision Date 17 Aug 2023
Adjudicator Edward Houghton
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
The Appellant was represented by Mr Dishman. The grounds of Appeal are set out in Mr Dishman’s skeleton argument which he developed before me. Having considered the matter carefully it seems to me that at least one of the grounds of appeal has some merit. The location is described as Goodmayes Road; however Mr Dishman tells me, and I accept, that there are three box junctions in Goodmayes Road. |The PCN is required to set out the grounds on which a penalty is demanded, and this inevitably includes a clear statement of the location of the alleged contravention. Although it might be possible for a motorist to trace the location from the photographs with some effort the Council’s prior duty is to set it out clearly. There seems to me no good reason why the location could not simply be stated as Goodmayes road junction with (naming the adjacent road) as would routinely be done in the case of a road traffic summons in the Magistrates Court. As the PCN was defective no penalty may be demanded on the basis of it and the Appeal ids allowed
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Case Details
Case reference 2230201115
Appellant Sandra Grauzyte
Authority London Borough of Redbridge
VRM VA16 OYG
PCN Details
PCN AF97065295
Contravention date 01 Mar 2023
Contravention time 16:07:00
Contravention location Goodmayes Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Entering and stopping in a box junction
Referral date -
Decision Date 31 May 2023
Adjudicator Andrew Harman
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons Mr Murray-Smith, for the appellant, appeared before me today via telephone.
I was satisfied for the reason he gave in his skeleton argument uploaded to the case on 10/05/23 - the council not responding to what was said it appearing to have had a full opportunity to do so - that the PCN was insufficiently particularised as to the location of the incident to the potential prejudice of the appellant in establishing where it had occurred it thus not being fully compliant. The contravention had not therefore been proved. The appeal was accordingly allowed.
I can give a shot, but if council rejects appeal do i still get a chance to pay 80£ or I have to pay the whole 160£?
Can you share me what I should put in my appeal
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I can give a shot, but if council rejects appeal do i still get a chance to pay 80£ or I have to pay the whole 160£?
Can you share me what I should put in my appeal
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Yes, you have a chance. However, it's not a frequently used argument and so I don't have much data to predict where probability of success lies on a scale of 0% to 100%.
Here's a couple of examples of where it's been successful in the past (also Redbridge box junctions) - quoting these may also boost your chances. However, I'd be lying if I said it's a slam dunk - you may get an adjudicator who refuses to engage with it as a line of argument.
Case Details
Case reference 223033552A
Appellant Janice Flint
Authority London Borough of Redbridge
VRM FV65SVZ
PCN Details
PCN AF97410735
Contravention date 19 Jun 2023
Contravention time 13:46:00
Contravention location Goodmayes Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Entering and stopping in a box junction
Referral date
Decision Date 17 Aug 2023
Adjudicator Edward Houghton
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons
The Appellant was represented by Mr Dishman. The grounds of Appeal are set out in Mr Dishman’s skeleton argument which he developed before me. Having considered the matter carefully it seems to me that at least one of the grounds of appeal has some merit. The location is described as Goodmayes Road; however Mr Dishman tells me, and I accept, that there are three box junctions in Goodmayes Road. |The PCN is required to set out the grounds on which a penalty is demanded, and this inevitably includes a clear statement of the location of the alleged contravention. Although it might be possible for a motorist to trace the location from the photographs with some effort the Council’s prior duty is to set it out clearly. There seems to me no good reason why the location could not simply be stated as Goodmayes road junction with (naming the adjacent road) as would routinely be done in the case of a road traffic summons in the Magistrates Court. As the PCN was defective no penalty may be demanded on the basis of it and the Appeal ids allowed
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Case Details
Case reference 2230201115
Appellant Sandra Grauzyte
Authority London Borough of Redbridge
VRM VA16 OYG
PCN Details
PCN AF97065295
Contravention date 01 Mar 2023
Contravention time 16:07:00
Contravention location Goodmayes Road
Penalty amount GBP 130.00
Contravention Entering and stopping in a box junction
Referral date -
Decision Date 31 May 2023
Adjudicator Andrew Harman
Appeal decision Appeal allowed
Direction cancel the Penalty Charge Notice.
Reasons Mr Murray-Smith, for the appellant, appeared before me today via telephone.
I was satisfied for the reason he gave in his skeleton argument uploaded to the case on 10/05/23 - the council not responding to what was said it appearing to have had a full opportunity to do so - that the PCN was insufficiently particularised as to the location of the incident to the potential prejudice of the appellant in establishing where it had occurred it thus not being fully compliant. The contravention had not therefore been proved. The appeal was accordingly allowed.
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Do i have chance if i appeal on this factor?
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I agree you won't be able to beat this on the strength of the video.
Another potential angle is that your PCN doesn't adequately state the location of the offence. It says "Ilford Lane". But that's a long road (c 1 mile) with more than one box junction.
Is that sufficient to comply with the legal requirement to state the grounds on which the PCN is due? I'd argue not.
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Do I have a leg to stand. (on ?)
Sorry to have to say it, but no. You entered the box when there was stationary traffic on the other side of it, with a small space which was not sufficient to allow your car to exit the box completely. Your call, and your mistake, basically.
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Hi All, hope all is well.
YBJ on Ilford Lane.
My bad of being absent minded with a crying toddler on back seat.
Do I have a leg to stand.
PCN No: AF21770289
REG: HT19FBN
Drive Link (https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/19tFnrG4aXDGoacZlPCGrv3dtNQ6HoyJE?usp=sharing)