Free Traffic Legal Advice
Live cases legal advice => Civil penalty charge notices (Councils, TFL and so on) => Topic started by: Nelly30 on November 23, 2023, 03:04:43 pm
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@Nelly30 Did you fight this? Were you successful? Just received a PCN for the exact same place
Please start your own thread and I will take a look for you.
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@Nelly30 Did you fight this? Were you successful? Just received a PCN for the exact same place
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@Nelly30 I have sent you a PM.
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Very good point.
It was my nearly 70 year old mum driving and she said she was focused on the bus ahead, then didn't know what to do when she saw the no entry and happened so quick but you see her crawl through. I think doing a 3 point turn at such a busy spot is dangerous so she didn't even consider it.
Not sure now what an adjudicator would think...
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I'm afraid it is £130 in play at the adjudicators.
Up until 2018, there was a clear exit at the sign by turning left, but sheer stupidity in the council shut that off. Or maybe they weren't making enough PCN money at that restriction.
Only question I have, because I'm sure an adjudicator would ask, is how did you manage to miss the advance sign at the Cricketers ?
Jut imagine you are a foreign driver who's a bit lost, driving a large HGV weighing over 40 tonnes. What do you do here ?
Answer - you just drive straight on because TfL will never be able to serve a PCN on you
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Thank you to all of you for your comments.
@cp8759 - I find your comments very interesting about both times and appeal and appreciate your offer to represent at tribunal. Could you PM me about this please? As a matter of principle, as Incandescent describes, I think we'd risk the £130 if we don't win...
@Hippocrates - again interesting point on service. As mentioned before, the location is also noted differently but unsure if that adds to the case.
@Incandescent - exactly my view that the Council have made this a mexican standoff situation where one has to decide whether to immediately stop and 3 point turn avoiding motorists, buses and trams or pass through. The former is dangerous as wpuld be driving down a no entry.
I still feel the condition of the road markings shocking and again purposefully tries to trick motorists.
I have shown pics here of before and now:
https://imgur.io/a/sWcRAhl
Thank you all again :)
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Yes - travelled east along tram tracks, joining Addiscpmbe Road from Park Hill Road to the south.
So as you tootle along Addiscombe Road going east you eventually get near to the Cricketers Inn where this sign is placed: -
https://maps.app.goo.gl/DavLD6jB1RVWZnKA6
As you can see, you need to make a right turn and not proceed along Addiscombe Road between the hours stated. However the actual restriction doesn't actually start at this sign, which is an advance warning sign.
Then, after a short distance you come to the next warning sign that shows no possibility of turning off, and one has to ask how on earth one turns around on this road that is busy with tram traffic.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/BzJtgrFcMsopy2UB8
Here is the restriction sign, and and the No Entry road on the left.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/ju36QLBTCEKkziM19
But in 2017, one could turn left here and thus avoid passing the sign
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4QcssZezUYZ4yffy9
So the council have acted quite disgracefully here in not taking account of the tram/bus gate sign and removing the sole means of avoiding passing it.
I believe there was a case in Reading where something similar had been done, and the appeal was allowed. But, needless to say, without the TPT case register, one cannot find it and extract it. It was before Covid, certainly.
So I would go to London Tribunals if it were me.
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"Letter served" then "letter served(delivered). Which is it? As above advice.
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Well you need to make a decision about whether you wish to carry on with the full amount at stake. I can represent you at the tribunal if you wish to pursue this, but obviously the outcome cannot be guaranteed.
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Yes - travelled east along tram tracks, joining Addiscpmbe Road from Park Hill Road to the south.
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It's very unfortunate that you didn't come to us when you first got the PCN, as we could have crafted some better representations.
Here's the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4u1i-0t_0w
We didn't get any outcome on the two threads you posted, but looking at your case there are two aspects I can see that are arguable, even if only just:
1) You start passing the regulatory sign at 08:45:52.050 and finish passing the sign at 08:45:53.117, the PCN alleged a contravention at 08:45:54, but by 08:45:53.983 you're way past the signs. Normally PCNs don't specify the time of the contravention down to the exact second, but if they do then it's arguable that they should get it right, and the contravention occurred at 08:45:52 and 08:45:53, so it did not occur at 08:45:54 which is the allegation on the PCN.
2) The notice of rejection says that if you pay the discount, the right to appeal is lost. This is nonsense, paying the £65 charge does not prevent you from appealing to the adjudicator, this aspect of the rejection is misleading.
However as you probably know, to take this further you have to appeal to the tribunal at which point the full £130 is at stake.
The tribunal cases you found are very fact specific and are half a decade old, so I really don't think they'll help as the signage and markings won't be the same.
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So which road did you use to get onto Addiscombe Road to drive east ? Your route is important because the tram lines run along this road all the way from Cherry Orchard Road.
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Travelling East with Canning Road on left hand side
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I'm confused here, so can you please tell us what direction you were travelling in, East or West ?
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Sorry please try:
36 Addiscombe Rd, Croydon CR0 6SN https://g.co/kgs/e4BjFk
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YOur GSV link doesn't take me to the location.
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Hi all,
PCN recieved at this location:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/mYgJE2rDSKH45JZk9
https://imgur.com/a/sWcRAhl
There were previous threads about signage (intrigued by "apples" reply):
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t127115.html
http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t68482.html
Just wondering if anyone thinks, on the off chance, the road markings could be a point to contest the PCN on. Please see condition previously (where they were bold and apparent) compared to now, where they are hardly noticeable. Ironically the bus/tram lane starts out of nowhere and at it's entry point a vehicle cannot turn left onto Canning Road and the private residence on the right even has a no entry sign, so only alternative would be to stop dead and do a 3 point turn in the middle of the road! Not very safe with buses, trams, cyclists, other cars! Video footage shows bus in front which blocked view of signage.
Received a NOR recently which is shown here (interestingly location of contravention is noted dirreferntly to original PCN):
https://imgur.com/a/Q8f270b
Tribunal Case ref 2180285390 noted inadequate signage
Tribunal Case ref 2180333460 notes confusion over signage
Thanks