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I received the attached PCN from Redbridge Council for entering and stopping at a yellow junction box. I was thinking to appeal on the basis that:

• The yellow junction box is very long (at least 4 car lengths) so it is difficult as a driver to ascertain if the space immediately after the junction box would be enough for my car to fit in
• My car was only partially on the junction box and didn't exactly block any traffic going into or out of the junction for the few seconds I was in there
• Although not shown in the video evidence provided, you can see that my car wasn't stationary the whole time (blinking brake lights) and I recall I was slightly crawling until the car in front moved and I was fully out of the junction box

Do you think these are strong enough ground for appeal? Any other thoughts or suggestions welcome.

Link to the council video here: https://youtube.com/shorts/07C1RtQuclI


PCN attached below:

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The sign says it is "Ley Street Depot" and seems to be a council depot with the entrance off Ley Street. So if their address is Ley Street, the YBJ is unlawful, not being at the junction of two or more roads. There is no street name on the entrance. The security barrier is obviously set back to avoid queuing vehicles backing-up into Ley Street.

That’s right this is a council depot - Redbridge Transport. You can drive in and there’s a car park immediately on the right hand side before the barriers which I think is for employees but there is no road name, it has Ley Street as it’s address. I’ll argue the YBJ is unlawful. Thanks guys

Yes understood. Do you think they have any grounds to contest my appeal? What would you do in my case?

According to the legislation:

“box junction” means an area of the carriageway where the marking has been placed and which is—
(a)at a junction between two or more roads

So it boils down to whether the turning into the depot can be classified as a separate road. I don’t see any mention in the rules that the road needs to be publicly accessible - I don’t recall any signs to say access is unauthorised for the public. I remember in the past anyone could drive in to the depot to collect recycle bins although that service is now stopped.

Agree with those draft reps.  Having checked google street view again and spotted red signs at the entrance stating "No access for unauthorised persons", I'd be tempted to embellish a little as follows (have also added an optional additional paragraph).


I make representations against PCN number xxxxxxxxx on the basis that

The contravention did not occur

Schedule 9:7:6 of the TSRGD 2016 defines a box junction as follows:

"For the purposes of this paragraph “box junction” means an area of the carriageway where the marking has been placed and which is—

(a)at a junction between two or more roads;

(b)at a gyratory system or roundabout;

(c)along a length of a two-way road (other than at a junction), the carriageway of which is not greater than 4.5 metres wide at its narrowest point; or

(d)on the length of road adjacent to the vehicular entrance to the premises of a fire, police or ambulance station."

The RTRA 1984 at s192 describes a road as:

F13 road”—

(a)in England and Wales, means any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes, and

(b)in Scotland, has the same meaning as in the Roads (Scotland) Act 1984;

Whilst Ley Street is a road within the definition, the placement of the box junction markings on Ley Street is at the driveway entry to a Council depot, a place the public do not have access by right.  Indeed, there are signs placed at the entrance to the depot explicitly saying "No access for unauthorised persons".

It follows that the box junction markings are laid outwith the parameters set by law and no penalty can be enforced.

Further to this point, I note the PCN issued by the authority states the location of the alleged offence as Ley Street (only).  Given Ley Street is a long road which has more than one box junction marked along it, the PCN must be more specific as to which box junction it is referring to by distinguishing which road it is a junction with (it is a strict requirement of the relevant legislation that a PCN must state the grounds on which the authority believe a penalty is payable and leaving the location ambiguous is not consistent with this requirement). The fact the box junction marking is not actually placed at a junction with a second road presumably prevents the authority from doing this at this location.

I agree the box markings are unlawful. They don't have to be at the junction of two or more roads, there are other scenarios such as outside a police, ambulance or fire station. But a council depot doesn't count.

Hi, I received the council rejected my appeal. They believe the YBJ does "conform to the principles of where and how this type of junction should be marked. The sides of the box are approximately at right angles to the flow of traffic and is therefore compliant with the TSRGD 2016".

So they haven't specifically addressed my point about the depot not being a publicly accessible road.

Should I further appeal it to the ETA?

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I'd be interested to know how many council owned/operated vehicles the council fines for this ybj. I'd wager quite a few.

Don't give in op.