Author Topic: West Suffolk - Parked in a restricted street - Angel Hill, Bury St Edmunds  (Read 1117 times)

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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order


@thelegendofyrag draft representation below, I will PM you some links to put in the representation, they will redirect to here and here but if you give them the links I'll PM you, we can use the click count to confirm whether they've looked at them or not (obviously do not click on the links I PM you as we want the click count to remain at zero). If they don't click on them, we can then prove they've failed to consider all of the evidence. If they say in the rejection that they've considered all the evidence, we've got them for lying as well.

Dear West Suffolk Council,

I contend that the alleged contravention did not occur owing to inadequate and incorrectly sited signage. I have now found the map tile at https://store.traffweb.app/suffolk/documents/parkmap/msched/EA63_rv0_5.pdf and I note the restricted area starts at the junction of Northgate Street with Angel Hill, but there are no zone signs at the junction.

Part 2 of Schedule 5 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 describes the sign as "Entrance to a zone or area (other than a pedestrian, or a pedestrian and cycle, zone) where parking controls apply", and the sign design you have adopted matches the item in the table at Part 3 of Schedule 5 under item 2 "Entrance to a restricted parking zone", but plainly you have not placed that sign at the entrance to the zone at all, as there are zone repeater signs before the zone entry sign.

If the zone entry signs were located where the zone legally commences, then I would have noticed the signs at the junction. The sign you rely on is located on the nearside just past my right-turn onto Angel Hill, and is likely to be missed by motorists who would not be looking in that direction while effecting a right-hand turn.

Furthermore the notice to owner is defective, because it does not convey the correct 28 day periods. A notice dated 20 May is deemed served on 22 May and the 28 day period thus expires on 18 June, not 20 June. The council is not empowered to alter the statutory timeframes in this way and this amounts to a procedural impropriety, on this point I refer you to the decision in Papjinder Gahir v London Borough of Havering at LINK1

Lastly the notice to owner indicates that the penalty will increased by 50% if no payment or representation is received, but the notice to owner cannot states this: the notice to owner can only state that the council may increase the penalty, not that it will do so. On this point I refer you to the comprehensive decision of adjudicator Jill Yates in Anthony Hall v Kent County Council available from LINK2

This is also a procedural impropriety.

For all the above reasons the penalty charge notice should be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,


This representation must be sent online, if it doesn't fit into the council's representations form you might have to save it in a PDF and upload it as an attachment (do not trim the text to make it fix in the text box on their website).

Remember to get a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Ok, so thanks again with your support on this. I now had received a Notice of Rejection response from the council, which would suggest they viewed the evidence provided?

The signage around the edges of the memorial would suggest you cannot park around these areas as it would block the road. The area in front of the memorial has no signage and isn't blocking any right of way.

What would my next steps be now?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14mUoFihQcydfMakAClxKeuybIpJ8u4MH/view?usp=drive_link

No re-offer of the discount so it is now a complete no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal as there are no additional costs, and the penalty charge of £70 stays the same.

No re-offer of the discount so it is now a complete no-brainer to take them to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal as there are no additional costs, and the penalty charge of £70 stays the same.

Thanks, ill get this sorted this week before the 28 days is up. Should i use the same appeal as i used directly with West Suffolk County Council?

I also have images from last weekend of vehicles parked in the same spot, the signs assume that you cannot park around the edges of the car park / war memorial otherwise the distance from the signs to the war memorial would be the same as the distance from signs further round to the actual car park itself!

There is also an ice cream van that parks every day exactly next to a 'not at any time' sign blocking any vehicle access around that part of the car park which by their logic shouldn't be allowed?

Edit* Also, the Notice of Rejection is addressed to my company not to me directly.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2024, 10:31:30 am by thelegendofyrag »

OP, can we pl sort out who's who here.

This [the NTO] was issued to the lease company on 29th April requesting payment by 30th May and a response to appeal within 28 days (I received on 13th May)

I have today received another Notice to Keeper via the lease company dated 20th May requesting payment by 20th June or to appeal with 28 days. Not sure why it's been re-sent before the original has expired.


Followed by:

..the Notice of Rejection is addressed to my company not to me directly.



The car is leased..but to whom? You or a company for which you work?

Did you ever receive a NTO in your name i.e. not one addressed to the lease company or perhaps your employer with a note to deal with it, but a NTO in your name?

If not, then what?

OP, can we pl sort out who's who here.

This [the NTO] was issued to the lease company on 29th April requesting payment by 30th May and a response to appeal within 28 days (I received on 13th May)

I have today received another Notice to Keeper via the lease company dated 20th May requesting payment by 20th June or to appeal with 28 days. Not sure why it's been re-sent before the original has expired.


Followed by:

..the Notice of Rejection is addressed to my company not to me directly.



The car is leased..but to whom? You or a company for which you work?

Did you ever receive a NTO in your name i.e. not one addressed to the lease company or perhaps your employer with a note to deal with it, but a NTO in your name?

If not, then what?


So each document as follows:

Notice of Rejection - 22nd March - Addressed to myself. This followed my initial appeal from having received a windscreen ticket
Notice to owner - 29th April - Addressed to the lease company Alphabet UK and passed on to me via my company.
Notice to owner - 20th May - Same as above, same document, sent again.
Notice of Rejection -  Received 4th July following my additional appeal via cp8759's advise. This was addressed to my company not me.

So the vehicle was leased to the company whom I work for. I say was as I now have a different vehicle.

Thanks
Gary



So in short, you have no written authority to make reps against your company's NTO! (as you've not mentioned this)

Do they know that it's their head on the metaphorical block here?

Legal process:
Anyone (within reason IMO) may make reps against the windscreen PCN and any response would be sent to that person by name.

A NTO would be sent to the registered keeper, in this case the lease company, who may make, and it appears have made, reps (to the authority's satisfaction) on the grounds that the vehicle was leased. They provided the lessee's details.

The authority then cancelled that NTO and issued a new one to the lessee. All perfectly proper.

Somehow you came into possession of the NTO and made reps. However, unless you included some form of written authority you were not entitled as a matter of law to do so.

Have we seen the reps?

If you haven't done so already, and if it is intended by the lessee to go to adjudication, then you must get written authority to appeal on their behalf.

If not, then they risk you (on their behalf) failing on a technicality and having to pay the penalty.

The second notice to owner on 20th May was sent to Alphabet, exactly the same as the first one on 29th April.

The documents have been sent to me from my car lease manager within my company with no written authority to appeal on their behalf.

Never received an NTO in my name. So no point me going through the Traffic Penalty Tribunal until i have received an NTO addressed directly to me?

OP, what you have described is a procedural nonsense. I suggest it's unraveled before it goes belly-up.

It's also contradictory.

Why would the authority address a NOR to your company when the NTO is addressed to Alphabet.

The authority cannot issue 2 separate PCNs to the same person, it's a legal non-starter.

Confusion reigns.

What should my next step be with the most recent NoR being addressed to my company (the leese?) As i have ultimately sent an appeal on the companies behalf, but without my companies written authority? Should i be asking them to notify West Suffolk Council to submit a NTO to me directly?

Re: West Suffolk - Parked in a restricted street - Angel Hill, Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #27 on: »
Hi All,

I have now been sent an Order for recovery of unpaid penalty charges addressed to my company.
I have attached the link to this below. Apologies, but i have no idea where to go with this now so your help is greatly appreciated.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NZmvKMw4ePTtd1DJSFeMtU-3VJg8Q66a/view?usp=drive_link

I have until 16th October to either pay or file a statement of grounds to not pay the charge.

In addition if it at all helps i have photographs of people continuing to park at this location and of an ice cream van that is regularly parked literally directly on a sign stating 'Restricted zone - At any time' and blocking any way through in this area.

Re: West Suffolk - Parked in a restricted street - Angel Hill, Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #28 on: »
Is anyone able to assist with how to progress with this please?

Re: West Suffolk - Parked in a restricted street - Angel Hill, Bury St Edmunds
« Reply #29 on: »
Who is the OfR addressed to ? The only option at this stage is to submit a Witness Statement using this form: -

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62e14db38fa8f5649f912647/TE9.pdf

Does your situation match any of those tick boxes ?