3. Was I wrong to park here?
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Author Topic: Was I wrong to park here?  (Read 4575 times)

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #15 on: »
@Swahmad at this point I suggest you wait for the notice to owner, as long as you challenge it within 14 days the discount will be reoffered even if the representation is rejected.

You need to be very careful with what you write in the formal representation, the biggest risk you run is making some unnecessary admission. If the council is simply put to proof, they may well lose on that alone.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #16 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 16, 2024, 12:32:09 am
@Swahmad at this point I suggest you wait for the notice to owner, as long as you challenge it within 14 days the discount will be reoffered even if the representation is rejected.

You need to be very careful with what you write in the formal representation, the biggest risk you run is making some unnecessary admission. If the council is simply put to proof, they may well lose on that alone.

My appeal has already been rejected. My fear is I've already made an unnecessary admission and so thinking to pay it :/

My understanding from this post however is that I was wrong to park there but there's no proof of that in the pictures
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #17 on: »
Quote from: Swahmad on June 16, 2024, 02:11:09 am
My appeal has already been rejected. My fear is I've already made an unnecessary admission and so thinking to pay it :/

My understanding from this post however is that I was wrong to park there but there's no proof of that in the pictures
You have not made an appeal, you've only made an informal representation. The next step is to wait for the notice to owner, as long as you challenge the notice to owner within 14 days the council will almost invariably reoffer the discount, so there's no point in paying now.

Also, it seems the suspension sign does not match the authorisation issued by the Secretary of State.

For now I suggest you wait for the notice to owner and let us know once you've received it.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #18 on: »
Is that a letter through the post?
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #19 on: »
Quote from: Swahmad on June 16, 2024, 10:53:51 pm
Is that a letter through the post?
Yes, and they rely on the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle to send it out.

So are you the owner, and is the address on the V5 up-to-date in all respects ?
The point here is that under the legislation, the owner of the vehicle has responsibility for paying or appealing all PCNs against the vehicle, and may not have been the driver at the time. So whilst they may have sent you a letter of rejection, they still have to send the Notice to Owner to the registered owner of the vehicle.
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #20 on: »
Quote from: Swahmad on June 16, 2024, 10:53:51 pm
Is that a letter through the post?
The notice to owner is a statutory document that will be sent by post to the registered keeper as per the DVLA records.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #21 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on June 16, 2024, 11:14:23 pm
Quote from: Swahmad on June 16, 2024, 10:53:51 pm
Is that a letter through the post?
Yes, and they rely on the name and address on the V5 Registration Certificate for the vehicle to send it out.

So are you the owner, and is the address on the V5 up-to-date in all respects ?
The point here is that under the legislation, the owner of the vehicle has responsibility for paying or appealing all PCNs against the vehicle, and may not have been the driver at the time. So whilst they may have sent you a letter of rejection, they still have to send the Notice to Owner to the registered owner of the vehicle.

I am not the owner, my wife is. The address is correct.

The letter of rejection has only been an email, if that makes any difference. Not received any letters at all
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #22 on: »
@Swahmad the notice of rejection will be posted to your wife, so you'll either need a letter of authority from her allowing you to make representations on her behalf, or she'll need to take over.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #23 on: »
I received the notice.to owner. They've not allowed me to pay the 50% reduced price :/

https://imgur.com/a/FaULXMu
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #24 on: »
Quote from: Swahmad on July 14, 2024, 02:20:41 pm
I received the notice.to owner. They've not allowed me to pay the 50% reduced price :/

https://imgur.com/a/FaULXMu
A Notice to Owner never has any discount offer on it, because the right to the discount is only ever on a PCN.  However, it is when rejecting representations against a Notice to Owner that many councils re-offer the discount to try to avoid the NtO recipient going to adjudication. For a council it is a PITA to have to prepare an evidence pack and they also have to pay a fee to the adjudicators too.

So submit representations against the Notice to Owner as advised earlier.
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #25 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on June 17, 2024, 12:26:51 am
@Swahmad the notice of rejection will be posted to your wife, so you'll either need a letter of authority from her allowing you to make representations on her behalf, or she'll need to take over.

I'll likely be writing on her behalf under her name
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #26 on: »
Quote from: Incandescent on July 14, 2024, 09:38:20 pm
Quote from: Swahmad on July 14, 2024, 02:20:41 pm
I received the notice.to owner. They've not allowed me to pay the 50% reduced price :/

https://imgur.com/a/FaULXMu
A Notice to Owner never has any discount offer on it, because the right to the discount is only ever on a PCN.  However, it is when rejecting representations against a Notice to Owner that many councils re-offer the discount to try to avoid the NtO recipient going to adjudication. For a council it is a PITA to have to prepare an evidence pack and they also have to pay a fee to the adjudicators too.

So submit representations against the Notice to Owner as advised earlier.

What should be included in the submitted representation?
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #27 on: »
@Swahmad here you go:

Dear Liverpool City Council,

I challenge liability because the alleged contravention did not occur. I did not see any suspension signs, I paid for parking on my phone, and from the CEO's photos I cannot see any evidence of a suspension sign being either in the vicinity of my vehicle, or more importantly being mounted with the two side wings so at to be properly visible.

I attach a copy of my parking payment receipt and request that the PCN be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and don't forget to get a screenshot of the confirmation page.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #28 on: »
Quote from: cp8759 on July 25, 2024, 08:41:35 pm
@Swahmad here you go:

Dear Liverpool City Council,

I challenge liability because the alleged contravention did not occur. I did not see any suspension signs, I paid for parking on my phone, and from the CEO's photos I cannot see any evidence of a suspension sign being either in the vicinity of my vehicle, or more importantly being mounted with the two side wings so at to be properly visible.

I attach a copy of my parking payment receipt and request that the PCN be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

Send this online and don't forget to get a screenshot of the confirmation page.

Thank you very much! I cannot actually find where to submit the representation. The site only give two options either to pay or to contact us, which seems to be a generic form. Should this suffice to use?
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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #29 on: »
Quote
Thank you very much! I cannot actually find where to submit the representation.
The back of the NtO leads one to

https://liverpool.gov.uk/parking-roads-and-travel/parking-fines-and-challenges/challenge-a-parking-fine/

What happens when you click on the link there
Make an informal challenge online

and enter the pcn and reg numbers?

-----------------
EDIT
Answered my own question by taking a look. Use the contact us page.
Make it clear you are making reps.
 
take a screenshot/print off each page as you complete it and likewise any receipt/acknowlegement.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2024, 09:05:11 am by John U.K. »
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  3. Was I wrong to park here?