Author Topic: Was I wrong to park here?  (Read 265 times)

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Swahmad

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Was I wrong to park here?
« on: June 04, 2024, 08:38:12 pm »
I parked in Liverpool town and paid for my street parking. I got a ticket despite coming back in time. My appeal has been rejected as it says it was a suspended parking spot?

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Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2024, 08:39:28 pm »
Won't let me upload pictures. Says the upload folder is full

MrChips

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Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2024, 09:18:29 pm »




Thanks. Hope these two work
« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 02:00:05 am by cp8759 »

Incandescent

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2024, 10:54:28 pm »
Fine, but PCN, please, all sides as well.

Have you submitted any representations yet ?


Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2024, 07:58:27 am »
Fine, but PCN, please, all sides as well.

Have you submitted any representations yet ?

https://imgur.com/a/FaULXMu

Yes I'd submitted an appeal which was been rejected



« Last Edit: June 16, 2024, 12:25:25 am by cp8759 »

John U.K.

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2024, 08:14:25 am »
Quote
Yes I'd submitted an appeal which was been rejected

Please post up your challenge and their rejection: also a GSV link to the location.

H C Andersen

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2024, 10:26:31 am »
+1 and could you take your own photos pl. GSV is a year old and I seem to remember (from last week when I was there) that the signage has changed. As the CEO hasn't bothered to take a photo of your car and the sign, who's to know where the sign was placed - I think it's possible that there isn't a traffic sign in your bay, simply a pole holding a One-Way sign.

Also, when did you park and was the suspension sign in place?


cp8759

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2024, 02:04:52 am »
Yes I'd submitted an appeal which was been rejected
@Swahmad no, you submitted an informal representation, which is quite different to an appeal.

Please show us what you sent and also what the council sent back.

These are the council photos:











Location: https://maps.app.goo.gl/RAoodjcucrP2YGWQ7

Sign authorisation: https://assets.dft.gov.uk/trafficauths/case-3920.pdf

How did you pay for parking, and did you see the suspension sign?

In the meantime I have requested the traffic order.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2024, 02:10:57 am by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2024, 08:32:31 pm »
+1 and could you take your own photos pl. GSV is a year old and I seem to remember (from last week when I was there) that the signage has changed. As the CEO hasn't bothered to take a photo of your car and the sign, who's to know where the sign was placed - I think it's possible that there isn't a traffic sign in your bay, simply a pole holding a One-Way sign.

Also, when did you park and was the suspension sign in place?

I parked at 12:56pm and paid for 30mins. I must've not noticed the sign on the pole for the suspension.

Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2024, 08:34:34 pm »
Quote
Yes I'd submitted an appeal which was been rejected

Please post up your challenge and their rejection: also a GSV link to the location.

I unfortunately don't have a copy of my challenge but I said something along the lines of I paid for parking so don't understand why I've been given a penalty.

What's a gsv link please?

Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2024, 08:42:12 pm »
Bit shocked how you got these photos  :-[

I didn't see the suspension sign. I paid via the phone and pay app. The letter written to me by the council makes it seem like I intentionally ignored the sign which couldn't be further from the truth  :(

I've added the pictures to my previous link of the rejection letter. Thank you for your time.
https://imgur.com/a/FaULXMu





« Last Edit: June 16, 2024, 12:24:31 am by cp8759 »

H C Andersen

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2024, 05:58:14 pm »
OP, in the absence of any up to date photos from you we're left with the council's and GSV, and the hotel cum restaurant.

What does GSV show?

3 separate parking places opposite the combined frontage of the hotel and restaurant.

The council's photos appear to show you parked in the third of these in which there's a post with a one-way sign and a traffic sign at right-angles stating 'pay here at machine'. They also show a suspension sign with what appears(when compared with GSV) a telephone box and a payment machine. This places your car in the same parking place opposite the restaurant.

My point about this set up is that the suspension sign does not have three sides, only a single side facing the road and that in combination with the 'pay her sign' which is visible without having to look at anything from the road a motorist could park, approach the machine, see the 'pay here' sign, pay and leave without even having their attention drawn to the suspension sign. Other than their curiosity being aroused by the back of the sign there was no reason for them to look.

Is IMO, a plausible line for a defence.

Why didn't the council place a regular-and for all I know the only mandated form of sign with 'wings'?

Was there any indication on the machine itself that there was a suspension?

See what others think.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2024, 07:14:19 pm by H C Andersen »

Swahmad

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2024, 06:02:01 pm »
OP, in the absence of any up to date photos from you we're left with the council's and GSV, and the hotel cum restaurant.

What does GSV show?

3 separate parking places opposite the combined frontage of the hotel and restaurant.

The council's photos appear to show you parked in the third of these in which there's a post with a one-way sign and a traffic sign at right-angles stating 'pay here at machine'. They also show a suspension sign with what appears(when compared with GSV) a telephone box and a payment machine. This places your car on the same parking place opposite the restaurant.

My point about this set up is that the suspension sign does not have three sides, only a single side facing the road and that in combination with the 'pay her sign' which is visible without having to look at anything from the road a motorist could park, approach the machine, see the 'pay here' sign, pay and leave without even having their attention drawn to the suspension sign. Other than their curiosity being aroused by the back of the sign there was no reason for them to look.

Is IMO, a plausible line for a defence.

Why didn't the council place a regular-and for all I know the only mandated form of sign with 'wings'?

Was there any indication on the machine itself that there was a suspension?

See what others think.

Thanks for your reply. Sorry what's a gsv? I think the sign was on the front and I just didn't see it, but instead paid attention to the side with the payment details on it

H C Andersen

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Re: Was I wrong to park here?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2024, 07:17:36 pm »
Google Street View

I think the sign was on the front and I just didn't see it, but instead paid attention to the side with the payment details on it


?

Pl don't confuse the payment machine with the post with the suspension sign otherwise our fronts, sides and backs will get confused.

Just wait for the input of others pl.