3. WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #30 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 09, 2023, 06:24:44 pm
The side road should have a warning sign.
That's the problem, should not must.
Should in TSM means that a missing sign can be queried and TBH, likely win if it were a case of driving a short way into a bus lane.
Would likely win here had OP parked, looked at the sign and left.
Could even win had OP parked and not seen the sign as it was turned.
But parked in a bus lane, take a photo of the sign (which shows they knew the time restrictions) and left the vehicle parked in contravention.
I hope I am wrong but can see Mr Chan shaking his head
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #31 on: »
+1
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #32 on: »
Quote from: DancingDad on November 09, 2023, 11:07:25 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 09, 2023, 06:24:44 pm
The side road should have a warning sign.
That's the problem, should not must.
Should in TSM means that a missing sign can be queried and TBH, likely win if it were a case of driving a short way into a bus lane.
Would likely win here had OP parked, looked at the sign and left.
Could even win had OP parked and not seen the sign as it was turned.
But parked in a bus lane, take a photo of the sign (which shows they knew the time restrictions) and left the vehicle parked in contravention.
I hope I am wrong but can see Mr Chan shaking his head

@Hippocrates This is what I always thought, I passed by today and there`s no way someone would actually see that sign if they are turning left. The sign at the start of the bus lane has slightly veered toward the driver now, it looks like it moves based on how bad the weather is.

@Dancing dad - btw I was parked in a bay (picture attached) - This is another conundrum - They have a parking bay in the bus lane


Quote from: Incandescent on November 09, 2023, 10:28:23 pm
OP, you have the absolute right in law to take them to the adjudicators at London Tribunals, but as you can see there is varying opinion on your chances. If the discount option has gone, it is obviously a no-brainer to do so, but if it's still available, you need to think carefully whether you should risk the extra £65.

For me it seems to be wrong to pay for a fine in this circumstance i.e the council not maintaining the signage. Can I pay the £65 and still appeal?
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #33 on: »
Nope. If you pay, game over. Parking bays are allowed in bus lanes.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #34 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 10, 2023, 09:09:49 pm
Nope. If you pay, game over. Parking bays are allowed in bus lanes.

At this point. I either pay £130 or don`t pay.

Btw what about the bus lane cameras not being approved etc that i`ve seen on quite a few threads? Does this still apply?
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #35 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 10, 2023, 09:09:49 pm
Nope. If you pay, game over. Parking bays are allowed in bus lanes.

Yup
What isn't allowed is parking bays operating at same time as the bus lane.
Here the times are complimentary, ie, no parking while bus lane operative, can park when it is not.

You were in contravention of the single yellow line but they cannot enforce that with CCTV.

Re cameral authorisation.
I've lost track but people like Hippo are up to speed on it.
Whether WF were or are still behind, I'm sure he can say.
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #36 on: »
Quote from: DancingDad on November 11, 2023, 01:56:56 pm
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 10, 2023, 09:09:49 pm
Nope. If you pay, game over. Parking bays are allowed in bus lanes.

Yup
What isn't allowed is parking bays operating at same time as the bus lane.
Here the times are complimentary, ie, no parking while bus lane operative, can park when it is not.

You were in contravention of the single yellow line but they cannot enforce that with CCTV.

Re cameral authorisation.
I've lost track but people like Hippo are up to speed on it.
Whether WF were or are still behind, I'm sure he can say.


I am unable to tag him but bumping this so that he can see and will try and message him.
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #37 on: »
I say wait for the Enforcement Notice and I am happy to take this on and pay £65 if I lose at Chancery Lane.

BTW, they have updated camera certification; but, who knows how this well develop?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 05:23:26 pm by Hippocrates »
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #38 on: »
Quote from: Hippocrates on November 13, 2023, 01:49:49 pm
I say wait for the Enforcement Notice and I am happy to take this on and pay £65 if I lose at Chancery Lane.

BTW, they have updated camera certification; but, who knows how this well develop?

Sounds good :)
Ah ok and do you know if they have updated camera certification all over the borough?
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Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #39 on: »
Quote from: S.M on November 13, 2023, 06:27:29 pm
Ah ok and do you know if they have updated camera certification all over the borough?
Whether they have it and whether they can prove it are different matters, especially if the council officers are required to attend.

For what it's worth, we've not lost a bus lane case since July 2021.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #40 on: »
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=152102&view=getlastpost

They get a mention.

S.M:  please reply to me via e mail.
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I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #41 on: »
Caught up at last. :D  Sorry got my threads mixed up.  Wait for the EN.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 09:34:17 pm by Hippocrates »
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #42 on: »
For later:

The Waltham Forest (Bus Lanes) (No. 1) Traffic Order 2001
The Waltham Forest (Bus Lanes) (No. 1 2001) (Amendment No. 8) Traffic Order 2007
Corrigendum

I haven't checked if it's material, but I don't think the corrigendum can have any legal effect as it purports to alter the substantive effect of the order, if it does become material we have the Montague Avenue cases that dealt with that issue.
Logged
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #43 on: »
Noted.
Logged
I REGRET THAT, FOR THE PRESENT, I AM UNABLE TO TAKE ON ANY MORE CASES AS A REPRESENTATIVE AT THE LONDON TRIBUNALS. THIS IS FOR BOTH PERSONAL AND LEGAL REASONS. PLEASE DO NOT PM ME UNLESS YOU HAVE POSTED YOUR THREAD ON THE FORUM AND I WILL ATTEMPT TO GIVE ADVICE.


If you do not challenge, you join "The Mugged Club".

cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

There are "known knowns" which we may never have wished to know. This applies to them. But in the field the idea that there are also "unknown unknowns" doesn't apply as they hide in the aleatoric lottery. I know this is true and need to be prepared knowing the "unknown unknowns" may well apply.

To Socrates from "Hippocrates"
Re: WalthamForest, 34 - Being in a Bus Lane, High Road Leyton (Bus Lane) E10
« Reply #44 on: »
I thought they should be sending a notice to owner but instead they sent this today 08/12/23

Do i need to make another representation?

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