Author Topic: Waltham Forest Council  (Read 512 times)

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Waltham Forest Council
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Dear members

I received this today.
I thought that the whole idea is not to stop traffic. When I entered the box the way was clear and then a white van from the opposite direction took the place I qas going to take leaving me on the edge of the box. Also from the video footage I am seen slowly moving maybe stopped for literally a few seconds right at the edge.

I feel that this is really unfair. Should I appeal?.

Thanks
Hashim

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Re: Waltham Forest Council
« Reply #1 on: »
Video:



I'll draft something for you tomorrow.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Waltham Forest Council
« Reply #2 on: »
Draft reps:

Dear London Borough of Waltham Forest,

The video starts at frame number 4690587 and even from the naked eye it is clear the car is moving at least until frame 4690782 when the camera operator starts to zoom in.

When we get to video frame 4690796 it is clear the vehicle is still moving, as playing the video frame by frame clearly shows:



Indeed by playing the video one frame at a time, movement can be detected up to frame 4691000 or 16.600 seconds into the video.

This can be confirmed by playing frames 4690980 to 4691010, or from 15.800 seconds to 17 seconds and observing the movement of the offside mirror:



Hence the car is stationary when the camera operator zooms out and reveals the following scenario:



It must be remembered at this point that it is only a contravention to stop if a vehicle is forced to stop owing to the presence of stationary vehicles. When my vehicle became stationary, the rear wheels and bumper where within the box markings but it can be seen that the car did not protrude into the box, with some approximation, more than the end of the first set of diamond shapes where the red line is drawn below:



This distance can be shown to be approximately 3 feet 4 inches:



Even making a generous 25% allowance for the angle of the camera, my car would still only be protruding into the box by approximately 4 feet 2 inches or 4.16 feet:



The width between the dark coloured car on my nearside and the van on my offside is plainly wide enough for my car. If for argument's sake those two vehicles had broken down, there would have been more than ample space for me to drive through the gap between those two vehicles.

Therefore the only issue is whether my progress was impeded by the white car ahead, and I contend that it was not. This is because the white car ahead was stationary on the far-side of the northwesternmost diagram 1055.3 marking, which are situated no less than 13.28 feet northwest of the yellow box:



It follows that given the size of the gap, there was more than ample space for me to pull forward. Hence I did not stop in the box junction because my path was impeded by stationary vehicles, rather I stopped because I chose not to obstruct the pedestrian crossing. It is a common myth perpetuated by councils that stopping in a box junction for any reason is a contravention, but this is not the case: it is only a contravention if the vehicle stops because it cannot proceed owing to the presence of stationary vehicles. Where a vehicle stops for some other reason, whatever that reason might be, the contravention alleged cannot occur.

It follows that the PCN must be cancelled.

Yours faithfully,

You'll have to put this all in a PDF file in order to preserve formatting, indentation and so on. Also, don't use the youtube links I've put on this thread, I'll send you some special links (that you must not click on) that we can use to check if the authority actually watches the videos we're supplying. If they don't, we'll have them on the hook for failure to consider.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Waltham Forest Council
« Reply #3 on: »
Let's hope cp's work works because so far the OP's account on its own wouldn't.

The 'white van' had nearly left the box having completed its manoeuvre before the OP entered, contrary to what's been posted;

The OP overtook the left-turn lane and turned left from a lane when they shouldn't.

OP, stick with cp's detail and forget your version because when there's a video which gives the lie to your account your credibility cannot recover.
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