Author Topic: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)  (Read 565 times)

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Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
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Hi all,

My partner received this PCN while he was doing a delivery. Is there any possibility of appealing it? I have done some research and its inconclusive because some places (MSE and some posts on here) I read that bus lane PCN's in the London Borough of Waltham Forest have been invalidated before because the enforcement cameras are not "ministerially approved".

Any advice would be much appreciated! Please click link below to see picture of PCN

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10XNDJV2gyXmSCV9MNJv7W_BBKWCylSX6/view?usp=sharing

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Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #1 on: »
This is not a code 34j/Bus Lane contravention for which they now have camera approval of a prescribed device.

They will need approval for this camera too. cp8759 will know most probably. The upright bus lane sign needs to be in place for the contravention to be proved. Please post up all pages of the PCN.

Just looked: the sign is there though the colour is faded.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2024, 10:02:59 am by Hippocrates »
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #2 on: »
@Johnathorn I think we can come up with something, here's a draft representation:

Dear London Borough of Waltham Forest,

In the first instance I challenge liability on the grounds of procedural impropriety. The penalty charge notice is required to state the grounds on which the authority believes the penalty is payable, and this includes adequate particulars of where the alleged contravention is said to have taken place. Lea Bridge Road is circa 3.2 miles long and as far as I can establish there are approximately 30 bus stops along its length, the penalty charge notice served in this instance gives no indication of where the relevant bus stop might be either by giving its identifier, or by reference to any nearby landmarks or junctions.

As such it is not possible for me to return to the location to investigate the adequacy of the signage, the road layout or any other relevant matters, I refer you to the decision of adjudicator Jack Walsh in Sofiane Kherbachi v London Borough of Redbridge (2230412198, 18 November 2023) and adjudicator Anita Reece in Nayeem Haque v London Borough of Redbridge (224017240A, 20 May 2024).

While I appreciate first instance decisions are not binding, I cannot see any reason why the tribunal would reach a different conclusion on this occasion.

Yours faithfully,


In the meantime I'll make some enquiries about the camera make and model, there is also a novel argument about the signage which I could try, more on this later.

Send the representation online and keep a screenshot of the confirmation page.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order
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Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #3 on: »
Thank you, my partner really appreciates your help with this.

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #4 on: »
Hey cp8759,

Waltham Forest have sent a response. Please let me know whether this is worth pursuing or whether to give up and pay at reduced rate?

Thank you

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #5 on: »
Please show it.
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #6 on: »
Hey cp8759,

Waltham Forest have sent a response. Please let me know whether this is worth pursuing or whether to give up and pay at reduced rate?

Thank you
@Johnathorn I think you forgot to attach the notice of rejection?
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #7 on: »
Apologies, I attached it however my upload folder is full apparently so It wasn't uploaded and still isn't being uploaded.
Please find the Notice of rejection on my google drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hUpSmmhG2d6qZV5AYY272n5JLErwXHBV/view?usp=sharing

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #8 on: »
Apologies, I attached it however my upload folder is full apparently so It wasn't uploaded and still isn't being uploaded.
Please find the Notice of rejection on my google drive:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hUpSmmhG2d6qZV5AYY272n5JLErwXHBV/view?usp=sharing

That link seems to be private.  It's helpful to upload pics to an image host such as IMGBB, that way you can post he pics directly into the thread and people don't have to go to another website to look at your docs.

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #9 on: »
I am so sorry. This is so annoying! Apologies I have amended the link to be accessible to anyone with the link.
I have also attached IMGBB link: https://ibb.co/mCRR7PT

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #10 on: »
For convenience (using the BBCode)


Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #11 on: »
@Johnathorn well you definitely have a better than evens chance if you carry on, I'll drop you a PM in case you'd like me to represent you.
I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor or a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193 and I abide by the SPMF service standards.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Re: Waltham Forest Bus Lane PCN (ministerially approved?)
« Reply #12 on: »
That middle sign needs some serious maintenance! Don't they ever check how sunny it must be in Waltham Forest!? ;D
IF YOU RECEIVE A MOVING TRAFFIC PCN PLEASE READ THIS BEFORE MAKING A REPRESENTATION:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/moving-traffic-pcns-missing-mandatory-information-the-london-local-authorities-a/msg102639/#msg102639


How do we get more people to fight their PCNs?

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/how-do-we-get-more-people-to-fight-their-pcns/msg41917/#msg41917

If you do not even make a challenge, you will surely join "The Mugged Club".

I am not omniscient. cp8759 and mrmustard are true geniuses. I know my place in the hierarchy of The Three Musketeers. 😊 "The Clinician", "The Gentleman" and "The Showman"

My e mail address for councils:

J.BOND007@H.M.S.S.c/oVAUXHALLBRIDGE/LICENSEDTOEXPOSE.SCAMS.CO.UK

Last mission accomplished:

https://www.ftla.uk/the-flame-pit/southwark-to-r