Author Topic: Tower Hamlets - Spital Street - Code 12R - Parked in resident parking place without valid permit  (Read 103 times)

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Glitch

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My FiL is 94 years old and still lives on his own with dementia. My wife has to regularly visit him - 3-4 times per week, buys and delivers his shopping, does his cleaning and makes him meals. She drives there. He also has carers visiting 3 times a day but they don't drive there.

He is entitled to free (Over 60 no blue badge) visitor permits.

On the TH Permits portal you 'buy' a voucher (actually a block of permits). These are free.
On each visit you log on to the website, input the VRM and activate a permit for the whole day.
Myself and the wife have done this hundreds of times and it always worked.

On this particular day the website threw up an error on the wife's phone. I tried on my laptop and had the same error.
we concluded a technical error. Told her to put a note on the dashboard and carry on. She wrote the note but failed to put in a visible place.

Result was a PCN.

I did a bit more investigation and found another way into the portal instead of using the 'favourite' we both had set up on our devices.

The permit website has had a significant upgrade. The URL to the permit page had changed. There was no advance warning of the upgrade.

Informal appeal fell of deaf ears. The car is in my name so I assume I get a NTO and can formally appeal.
Wife says pay it. I say fight it. They've lost nothing. We have an old man to look after. There was no alternative parking within reasonable distance to carry shopping. He needs regular visits.

Any thoughts?





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Glitch

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informal appeal:

Quote
I regularly park in Spital Street to visit my 94 year old father, xxxx xxxxx, Flat n xxxxx xxxxx. He is housebound and has dementia. He is entitled to free visitor permits.

Records will show that A2 virtual visitor permits are issued for my car, AV66THN 3-4 times per week.

On this occasion I attempted to issue a visitor permit and encountered an error that said:
Sorry, there is a problem with the service. An error occurred while processing your request.

After several attempts I gave up. I was not aware of any other way to issue myself a permit. I needed to visit my father and there was nowhere within a reasonable distance to park elsewhere.

I wrote a note explain the fault but unfortunately in my haste I hadn’t put it in a visible place.

On returning to my car I saw the PCN. I checked again to see if I could issue a permit and the website still returned an error. I enclose the screenshots of the errors.

When I got home I also checked the permit website on my laptop. I encountered a similar error. Screenshot enclosed.

My husband looked into it and found another way into the website. I had been using ‘bookmarked’ URLs on my phone and laptop, a common way to simplify access to the website.

The bookmarked URL is https://towerhamlets.tarantopermits.com/Account/Login

It became apparent that there has been a significant website upgrade. I was not aware of these changes and it has become clear that the bookmarked URLs no longer worked.

I invite you to view the Lasting Power of Attorney I have for my father. It will confirm my father’s age and address, plus my details.
View a lasting power of attorney - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
CODE: xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I ask you to exercise your discretion to cancel the PCN. The significant changes to the website caused the bookmarked URLs to fail, giving the impression the system was down. I could not abandon the visit to my father. Records show I have successfully used the website several times per week for several years for my car.

Regards,

Incandescent

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It's the usual Fob-Off letter sent out for all informal reps.
Needless to say, they haven't considered your reps at all, they just press a button after entering your details, and out goes the letter, so, yes, they are lying as well as dissembling.  They do this, because they know that 95% of people then just cough-up, (like your wife would). 

When webpages change, it is normal practice for the old UEL to point to the new one for some time after the change, or as a minimim, output a message giving the new URL. They have done neither, and if it were me, I'd be holding their hand to the fire and taking them to London Tribunals, because this is, essentially, an abuse of process.

For London Councils, parking penalties are a Magic Money Tree as this link will show you
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/revenue_from_pcn_fines/response/1930765/attach/html/2/Response%20all%20information%20to%20be%20supplied.pdf.html

Hippocrates

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Stewards of the Bar!

This argument has won and failed but may as well use it later to test their reply:

The wording of the PCN in terms of the 28 days period is wrong since it does not comply with Schedule 2 para. 2 @   https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/71/schedule/2
(d)that the penalty charge must be paid within the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the alleged contravention occurred,
There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

"Hippocrates"

Glitch

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I'll take it all the way. Cant let them get away with it.

cp8759

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@Glitch did you get a screenshot of the error message on the phone or on the laptop?
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Glitch

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Yes - from the wife's iPhone and my laptop.

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Glitch

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I found out afterwards that the original URL that we had both bookmarked was https://towerhamlets.tarantopermits.com/Account/Login

They changed the login page to https://towerhamlets.tarantopermits.com/Account/SignIn

You can recreate the error page when you use the original URL.

I eventually clicked on the Tower Hamlets logo to find my way back to the new menu.
It was a significant change to the look and feel of the parking permit portal.

cp8759

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« Last Edit: April 01, 2024, 12:10:48 am by cp8759 »
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Glitch

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The only photos and screenshots we have are timestamped 20th January, the day after when I started pulling the info together.
The iPhone screenshots the wife took have the time on the top left, but not the date.

Glitch

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Still waiting for the NTO.
I am the registered keeper. The wife would probably argue she's the owner but that's debatable  ;D

The rejection letter doesn't say what happens if you are not the registered keeper or owner.
Is it up the registered keeper to name the driver when you get the NTO?

Incandescent

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Still waiting for the NTO.
I am the registered keeper. The wife would probably argue she's the owner but that's debatable  ;D

The rejection letter doesn't say what happens if you are not the registered keeper or owner.
Is it up the registered keeper to name the driver when you get the NTO?
No. Under the legislation, the keeper as per the name on the V5C Registration Certificate has responsibility for paying or appealing, who was driving is irrelevant.
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Glitch

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Received the NTO this morning.

Should I use the same wording for the reps as used in the informal appeal??

The main point is the parking permit portal had been upgraded and appeared to be down.
The Login URL was changed so bookmarks didn't work.

Also, the FIL is entitled to free visitor permits which we use 3-4 times per week.
Therefore TH have not lost out financially.
We don't have an audit trail of permits allocated to FIL account and when they were used.
Do I need to prove it or do TH have to disprove it? Or does it need a GDPR request on behalf of FiL? Wife has PoA.








cp8759

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Should I use the same wording for the reps as used in the informal appeal??
I can't add anything but you should upload the screenshots.

Also take a screenshot of the confirmation screen once the representation has been submitted.

Wait a few days to see if anyone makes any additional suggestions, but don't lose track of the deadline.
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative councillor, this means some people think I am "scum". I am not a lawyer.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

Glitch

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Appeal uploaded as a PDF attachment with screenshots embedded.
Confirmation of successful submission has been screenshotted and saved.
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