Author Topic: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?  (Read 115 times)

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SAZZA

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TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« on: November 30, 2024, 12:56:59 pm »
I parked briefly in a loading/unloading bay on Tfl Red Route I have used several times to unload items to charity shop next to it. The sign USED TO SAY Loading Permitted between 10am and 4pm (No stopping between 7am and 7pm). Google Street View shows this was the sign in July 2024. I received a parking ticket because I now realise the sign has recently changed to No Loading "except 7pm - 7am". HOW DO I FIND OUT WHEN THE SIGN CHANGED? I've tried to look on the internet. Many thanks.

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stamfordman

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2024, 01:50:35 pm »
Post the PCN. We are clueless otherwise.

SAZZA

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2024, 02:33:52 pm »
Sorry. Here's the PCN and screenshots of the sign in July and the new one.

SAZZA

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2024, 11:51:21 am »
`hello again. Would be much appreciated if anyone could offer any advice on this? Hope the PCN and images help.

H C Andersen

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2024, 02:23:03 pm »
Where's the video pl?

This is quite a significant change.

Previously the RR prohibition was 7am to 7pm, which was out of context with the preceding DRL and following DRL. The loading exemption sat within this. Given that the RR prohibition ended at 7pm, then in effect anyone could stop there for any reason 7pm-7am.

Now, they have changed the red route prohibition to 24/7, changed the anything goes period so that this is now loading only and removed any anything goes period.

It's possible, but putting up the wrong sign is not unknown - there was another thread here on this very issue quite recently.

SAZZA

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2024, 02:41:03 pm »
Thanks for your reply. I don't have the video of it (have to apply in writing to be sent copy) but Tfl have accepted in their response that I was unloading and stayed for precisely 2 minutes but that I was "stationary outside of permitted times". Is that any help? Sorry, not sure what DRL means?

kno

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2024, 04:59:17 pm »
DRL - Double Red Line

Call TFL on Monday on 0343 222 3333 and ask for the video, they will put the PCN on hold and send you a DVD in the post.

TFL Ref - https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/penalty-charge-notices

SAZZA

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2024, 05:14:17 pm »
Thanks I will do. Is there any way of finding out when they changed the sign? It must have been pretty recently as I have used this bay before to unload and load.

H C Andersen

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2024, 05:20:05 pm »
OP, let's be clear:
You received a PCN addressed to you;
You made representations;
These have been rejected and you have a Notice of Rejection.

If yes, then post this document - NOR, Notice of Rejection of Representations. Your only options are to pay or appeal and there are time limits applicable to both.

And to repeat: get the video.

Your problem is that this does NOT stop the clock as regards registering an appeal, so pl get on with it ASP and post the NOR(all sides and all corners). And pl stop posing questions until these actions have been taken because time is not on your side. 

SAZZA

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2024, 06:39:02 pm »
I'm so sorry if I haven't done this right and asked a question but I now attach the NOR. I only received this yesterday, Saturday, when TFL aren't open but I will request the video tomorrow. I just thought it would help my appeal to the Adjudicator if I could find out when they'd changed the sign.

Incandescent

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2024, 10:26:36 pm »
To change the times, there should be a Traffic Regulation Order that amends the times. The sign must reflect the TRO that establishes the restriction.

H C Andersen

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2024, 10:34:36 pm »
Can't find it in the London Gazette.

OP, I suggest to write to TfL and ask them.

This might help: trafficordersection@tfl.gov.uk

SAZZA

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2024, 11:00:21 pm »
Thank you so much to both of you. I will follow up on your advice tomorrow (not sure I’ve totally understood but will try) and report back how I get on, if that’s ok.

Incandescent

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Re: TFL RED ROUTE LOADING BAY - when did they change the signs?
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2024, 11:57:40 pm »
Thank you so much to both of you. I will follow up on your advice tomorrow (not sure I’ve totally understood but will try) and report back how I get on, if that’s ok.
Basically, if the TRO for the location doesn't have the times shown in the sign, but the old ones, then the PCN is void.