3. TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
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sandef

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TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« on: October 16, 2023, 03:31:04 pm »
Good afternoon,

I received a Charge Certificate of £240 for an alledged PCN dating to 21st Aug 2023.

I did not received any PCN on my car or any letter or PCN in the post prior to this charge notice.

I was parked here

I was confused with the timing and was not aware that I could not park there between 4 and 7pm.

See charge notice attached.

What can I do now?

Thanks so much for you help.


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Pastmybest

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2023, 03:40:41 pm »
Is the address the same as that on the v5c and if so how long has the v5c been at that address
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sandef

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2023, 04:42:55 pm »
Address is same as V5, and has been since purchase of this car over a year ago.

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Pastmybest

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2023, 05:31:49 pm »
Simple then, wait for the next document the order for recovery when you get this you can make a statutory declaration to the effect that you did not receive the PCN, the CC will be cancelled and TfL will have to re serve or drop it
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Incandescent

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2023, 06:16:32 pm »
Once you've got back to the PCN stage, you can then submit representations that TfL are not allowed to enforce Red Route parking bays using CCTV. They lost a recent panel decision on this at London Tribunals, but have gone to judicial review to try to overturn that decision. The court session is in November, I think. Our esteemed administrator knows the date.

Once you're back at the PCN stage, let us know.
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cp8759

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2023, 06:29:17 pm »
The PCN has obviously been lost in the post and it is at least a possibility that the same might happen to the Order for Recovery.

I therefore suggest you check the PCN on https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/challenge-a-pcn at least once a week, once the debt has been registered with the Traffic Enforcement Centre the amount due will go up to £249, as soon as that happens you can download form TE9, fill it in  on your computer (no need to print out, the court will accept a typed signature, and remember the applicant is Transport for London, not you) and tick the box to say you never got the NTO/PCN, then email it to tec@justice.gov.uk with the PCN number in the subject line.

When the amount due on the TFL website drops back down to £65, it means the PCN has been reissued. Let us know when this happens (you'll need to check once every 10 days or so after you've emailed TEC) and we'll help with a representation.

Any questions please ask.
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

sandef

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2023, 11:55:18 am »
Thanks so much.

Will keep you posted.
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sandef

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2023, 12:15:35 pm »
Good afternoon,

The Statutory Declaration has been accepted, and the PCN is now back at £80.

Yesterday it was showing as £0.00 and no payment could be made. I took a screen shot of that, attached.

How do we go further?

Thanks so much for your help.



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Hippocrates

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2023, 07:31:40 pm »
Please show the declaration acceptance.
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There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends a hearing, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know through no fault of their own.

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cp8759

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2023, 05:35:47 pm »
Call TFL first thing on Monday and ask for the video, the number is 0343 222 3333. They will send a DVD in the post and put the penalty on hold while you wait.

Also send this to foi@tfl.gov.uk:

Dear Transport for London,

There is a CCTV camera outside 74b Stamford Hill, London, N16 6XS, which is visible here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/wxfZBYiGhGwckp4n7

I would like to know the make and model of this camera.

I would also like copies of any documentation confirming the make and model of the camera.

Yours faithfully,

If there is anything you can put to TFL in mitigation, please tell us now as we'd want to cover that in the representations.

Lastly it might be an idea to go and check if this sign is still there: https://maps.app.goo.gl/4PG8HaNkaetT94hd9
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

sandef

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2023, 01:11:04 pm »
Good afternoon,

Thanks for your response. I requested the footage and submitted the FOI.

I checked again, the sign is still there.

The location is here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/L22u5EtAGXvXZ57y9

Thanks
« Last Edit: December 18, 2023, 12:47:40 pm by cp8759 »
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cp8759

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2023, 12:51:39 pm »
The PCN was reissued on 24 November so your deadline to make representations is 25 December, whatever you do don't miss the deadline or else all is lost.

Do you have any mitigating circumstances to put to TFL?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

sandef

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2023, 12:59:28 pm »
I was not aware that this section is disfferent to the section before Windus Road which parking is allowed during same hours.

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cp8759

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2023, 02:18:28 pm »
Is there any reason why you might have missed the sign?
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I practice law in the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, London Tribunals, the First-tier tribunal for Scotland, and the Traffic Penalty Tribunal for Northern Ireland, but I am not a solicitor nor a barrister. Notwithstanding this, I voluntarily apply the cab rank rule. I am a member of the Society of Professional McKenzie Friends, my membership number is FM193.

Quote from: 'Gumph' date='Thu, 19 Jan 2023 - 10:23'
cp8759 is, indeed, a Wizard of the First Order

sandef

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Re: TFL PCN - First Letter is the Charge Certificate
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2023, 04:02:23 pm »
It looks similar to the sign just a few meters behind it, and I missed the difference.

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