Author Topic: TFL(Dagenham), Driving in a bus lane, Alfreds way/Ripple Road A13 North side entry slip  (Read 1177 times)

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Hi,

Ive received a PCN from TFL for driving in a bus lane that is on a slip road on to the A13 after leaving the roundabout.

I just wanted some advice to see whether I have any grounds to appeal? I cannot see any signs in the pictures that shows the bus lane sign indicating any operating hours?

Google map location - https://maps.app.goo.gl/PDFbGoagByvSyhRv5








Thanks in advance! any help would be much appreciated!

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There is an advance warning sign as you leave the roundabout:-
https://maps.app.goo.gl/h7wg9AE4cbXmkNtt5

The bus lane is 24x7 as the signs state "At any time".

Any particular reason for entering the bus lane, as the signs seem clear enough ?

Hi,

yeah I honestly didn’t see the sign as the roundabout was super busy and was already in the bus lane when I realised.

I know I made a mistake but was hoping I could appeal to see if I had a chance of getting it cancelled.

I understand the signs are there but in any of the photographic evidence there is no bus lane signage seen.

Sorry to have to say it, but I can't see any robust appeal based on what you've said so far.

The London Local Authorities Act 2003, under which your PCN was served has a quirk related to attendance of the enforcing authority when requested by the appellant. If they don't turn up , you win as the video evidence is then void. But of course you have to risk the full PCN penalty to find out.

I suggest you submit reps on the basis that the photos on the PCN show no bus lane signs passed by your vehicle. Best to at least submit something, rather than coughing-up straight away and joining the Mugged Club

You can request their video of the alleged contravention. This is sent as a DVD and they stop the enforcement clock for about 14 days whilst they produce and send it to you.

Hi,

Yes, there is a sign as you leave the roundabout but this is faced towards the roundabout and if you are coming from Lodge Avenue there is no signage visible and the roundabout sign isn't angled towards that area.

I have also been back to the roundabout today and taken some photos from my dash cam and the sign at the roundabout is there but the one on Google Maps immediately at the bus lane has been removed this backs up the case that if you are coming from Lodge avenue there is no signage visible and no floor signs.




Yea, fine, but the bus lane commences 52 metres past the roundabout and has its own signs. You could say this is too little notice,  hence they have put a warning on the roundabout. Were you approaching from Lodge Avenue ? If so, you'd likely miss the advance sign.
Bottom line is - are you prepared to forego the discount and take them to London Tribunals ? If not then it's basically game over, because >95% of representations are rejected.

Yes on the day I was approaching from Lodge avenue and took the exit - there is no sign at the bus lane apart from the white dashed line and the bus lane lettering after the Bus stop lettering.

I’m willing to forego the discount if I feel like I have a chance at winning.

Yes on the day I was approaching from Lodge avenue and took the exit - there is no sign at the bus lane apart from the white dashed line and the bus lane lettering after the Bus stop lettering.

I’m willing to forego the discount if I feel like I have a chance at winning.
Nothing is ever certain at London Tribunals, but the fact that TfL saw fit to put up and advance sign on the roundabout tells you that they recognises the very short time to react to the bus lane after one leaves the roundabout. So whilst it's not a dead cert, there is certainly a chance, plus you can request TfL attendance at the adjudication. If they don't turn up their CCTV evidence is void.

Does the CCTV operator not need to attend regardless to give their side of events?

I have requested footage this morning and they have confirmed this has been put on hold for another 14 days.

I still need to go back and get photo evidence from the actual route I took that day from lodge avenue.

Does the CCTV operator not need to attend regardless to give their side of events?

I have requested footage this morning and they have confirmed this has been put on hold for another 14 days.

I still need to go back and get photo evidence from the actual route I took that day from lodge avenue.
There is no mandatory requirement for the CCTV operator to attend the hearing in all circumstances, but the Act under which the PCN was served has a clause in it that permits the appellant to request the attendance of the person certifying the CCTV or camera certification records. See below, Schedule 1, Section 7, (admissibility of evidence) para (6)

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1996/9/schedule/1/enacted


So I applied for the CCTV footage for this on the 23rd February and hadn't received anything so sent off my appeal midnight on the 09 th March as I was getting worried but have logged on to see that the PCN has been cancelled since my appeal.

This was my appeal along with photographic evidence of inadequate signage that I went back to get.

Ground: The alleged contravention did not occur

I approached the location from Lodge Avenue and exited the roundabout toward Alfreds Way / A13 North Side Entry Slip.

From the Lodge Avenue approach there are no advance warning signs indicating that the exit leads directly into a bus lane restriction. Drivers approaching from Lodge Avenue therefore receive no clear advance notice of the restriction before reaching the roundabout and committing to the exit lane (Evidence 1A & 1B).

The only upright bus lane sign is positioned further along the road on the left-hand pavement and is not clearly visible to drivers exiting the roundabout from Lodge Avenue prior to committing to the nearside lane. The sign is oriented toward traffic travelling along Alfreds Way rather than toward vehicles emerging from the Lodge Avenue approach. As a result, motorists from this direction must commit to the exit before the restriction becomes clearly visible (Evidence 2 and Evidence 3).

Additionally, the first carriageway marking encountered after exiting the roundabout is the “BUS STOP” marking, while the “BUS LANE” marking only appears further along the carriageway. This means the restriction becomes clearly apparent only after a motorist has already entered the nearside lane (Evidence 2 and Evidence 4).

Furthermore, when exiting the roundabout from the Lodge Avenue approach, drivers must focus on the traffic signals, vehicles in adjacent lanes, and the safe negotiation of the roundabout exit. In these normal driving conditions the positioning of the existing bus lane sign does not provide clear advance notice of the restriction from this direction of travel. By the time the restriction becomes apparent, a driver has already committed to the nearside lane and cannot safely change lanes due to surrounding traffic and the road layout.

Historical Google Street View imagery also shows that an advance bus lane sign was previously installed prior to the bus stop and before the start of the bus lane. When I revisited the location this sign was no longer present. The removal of this advance warning sign further reduces the visibility of the restriction for motorists approaching from Lodge Avenue (Evidence 5).

Traffic restrictions must be indicated by signage that adequately conveys the restriction to road users before the point at which a driver must decide which lane to take. In this case drivers approaching from Lodge Avenue must commit to the nearside lane before the bus lane restriction becomes clearly visible. The signage therefore does not provide adequate notice of the restriction from this approach.

In light of the absence of advance warning signage from the Lodge Avenue approach, the positioning and orientation of the existing bus lane sign, and the sequence of carriageway markings encountered after exiting the roundabout, the restriction is not clearly conveyed to motorists approaching from that direction before the point at which they must commit to the nearside lane.

For these reasons I submit that the alleged contravention did not occur and I respectfully request that the Penalty Charge Notice be cancelled.

Should these representations not be accepted, I request that the council provide the full reasoning and evidence relied upon so the matter may be considered by the independent adjudicator at London Tribunals.

Evidence attached
1A & 1B – Lodge Avenue approach showing no advance bus lane signage
2 – Driver’s view after exiting the roundabout showing BUS STOP marking before BUS LANE marking
3 – Position and orientation of the bus lane sign relative to the Lodge Avenue approach
4 – CCTV still image showing BUS STOP marking before BUS LANE marking
5 – Historic Google Street View image showing advance bus lane sign previously present









Thanks for all your help!