Free Traffic Legal Advice

Thanks all. I was told by TFL today that I would not receive the DVD in another video format, as DVDs are the only way these are sent out. I was then told that I could make a formal representation, at which point if it is rejected, it will go to the Adjudicator.

Therefore, what should I be mentioning in my formal representation? Is it the following:

- I don't have an accessible means of playing the DVD, and even if they use Google Street View to show the NLT sign, that just proves that the sign existed in 2022 (the last time Google took a photo of that street), and not at the time of the alleged infraction

- Also, as Incandescent pointed out, the still images from the camera doesn't show me disobeying the actual violation, because the NLT signs are not shown in the images, as the camera is looking down onto the box junction.

Thanks for all of your help so far, please let me know what to say as TFL have advised that my 14 day discount period expired today.

Thanks!

I suggest you write on what you have outined in your previous post. 

1. I was turning left into the restriction, but saw no advance sign warning of the restriction before making the turn.

2. A motorist turning left at a busy road junction in a city like London must concentrate on safely turning the vehicle, bearing in mind possible pedestrian and cycle traffic.  This means any restrictions on entry should be made plain to the motorist from a distance. It is common practice where streets are restricted to provide advance notice where entry can involve making a left, or indeed right, turn so that the driver is aware of them and can thus avoid making the turn during the restricted hours.

3. The sole evidence of the contravention is a recording from a CCTV camera. Unlike every council in London, TfL do not make the evidence available on-line, but insist on sending a DVD on request. It is common knowledge that all modern computer equipment available in the retail market, (lap-tops, PCs etc),  no longer contain DVD drives. I am therefore unable to view your evidence that you would present to London Tribunals if this matter ends up there for a decision. This is therefore an unfair practice, and hence TfL fail in their duty of fairness as a public body.

I therefore request that the PCN be cancelled.

Quote from: Incandescent on April 13, 2025, 07:59:12 pm

I suggest you write on what you have outined in your previous post. 

1. I was turning left into the restriction, but saw no advance sign warning of the restriction before making the turn.

2. A motorist turning left at a busy road junction in a city like London must concentrate on safely turning the vehicle, bearing in mind possible pedestrian and cycle traffic.  This means any restrictions on entry should be made plain to the motorist from a distance. It is common practice where streets are restricted to provide advance notice where entry can involve making a left, or indeed right, turn so that the driver is aware of them and can thus avoid making the turn during the restricted hours.

3. The sole evidence of the contravention is a recording from a CCTV camera. Unlike every council in London, TfL do not make the evidence available on-line, but insist on sending a DVD on request. It is common knowledge that all modern computer equipment available in the retail market, (lap-tops, PCs etc),  no longer contain DVD drives. I am therefore unable to view your evidence that you would present to London Tribunals if this matter ends up there for a decision. This is therefore an unfair practice, and hence TfL fail in their duty of fairness as a public body.

I therefore request that the PCN be cancelled.

Thank you very much! Should I also mention that the still images (and by the power of deduction, the video that it is taken from) do not show me passing by a "no left turn" sign, and instead show me turning left at the junction?

Yu can do, but be aware that the traffic signal heads have 'no left turn' signs on them.  I had another look at the thread, and I'm now not sure whether adance warning is a good argument bearing in mind the traffic signal heads have very prominent "no left turn" signs on them and these are seen before you make the turn. SO I have to say, that the only points you can make are (1) none of their photos show you passing a 'no left turn' sign' and (2) the DVD and issue of fairness as DVD players are now no longer in retail computer equipment.

Hi everyone.

My representation was rejected.

The official notice of rejection is here - https://imgur.com/a/xZ1nL6f

As you can see, they’ve not said much about the dvd point, and also they’ve provided a picture of the road sign that says no left turn.

Therefore, can I still appeal on the basis that the rule is that the evidence must show me passing the no left sign, as their still images do not show me passing the sign they have taken a picture of (which seems to be a fair way back from the actual traffic light/junction). Furthermore, can I still make an appeal based on the dvd point?

Also, if I lose at the London tribunal, will I be forced to pay £160 plus TFL’s costs? Basically what I’m asking is, what is the most I would need to pay if I lost?

Thanks!

Your maximum exposure would be £160. There would be no TfL costs, the system is structured so as to make cost awards very difficult.

Thanks! That’s a relief!

So am I ok submitting an appeal based on what I’ve said above:

- No DVD player
- Evidence just not show me passing the actual sign

TFL have provided an image of a sign, but haven’t said when it is from? Also, what proof do they have that that sign was there on the time/date the incursion took place?

Some help please? I have to submit the form to London tribunals tonight.

Would really appreciate some support. Thanks

Hi all

My hearing with London Tribunals is on August 8th. I'd like to recap the following about what I am going to say at the hearing:

- The evidence that was provided was in DVD format which is not an accessible format these days. Furthermore, TFL are the only authority as far as I know that do not provide video evidence/footage online

- All the evidence that has been provided does not show me passing an actual No-Left-Turn sign, however TFL, as part of their evidence pack, have sent me the following pictures in the link below, which shows a no left turn sign on the traffic light, as well as the signage before the traffic light, however again, there is no evidence showing my car passing this sign as the time of the alleged offence, therefore that sign may not have been there at that time.

Furthermore, in the evidence pack, they have also state that "That the signage is not directly visible is due to the angle of the fixed camera, but there is no requirement that the signage be visible from the camera, only that we are able to demonstrate its presence and compliance with the restrictions." Surely this isn't correct? Shouldn't the evidence directly show the signage too?

Evidence link here - https://imgur.com/a/aL2hLXS

Is there anything else I can say?

Thanks